CodePath EES2024 DOCUSIGN - Confidence Signed and Delivered: Strategies to Block Imposter Syndrome

Hi everyone, welcome. We are almost at the end of EES which is so sad but we are so excited for the session today hosted by docyign. So welcome everyone drop where you’re joining us in the chat.

We are super excited today for this session. We are excited for Kunda who I will introduce in a moment but first a few reminders. Please utilize the chat throughout.

We will have time for questions at the end. So please utilize the Q&A tab to drop your questions for Kunda. As a reminder, we hope you keep your messages on topic today and at the end of the session, we’ll be sharing our feedback survey.

Super important for you to give us your feedback so that we can continue to make this event something that’s really impactful for you all. So, with the reminders out of the way, please let me introduce Kunda who is our speaker. He serves as the manager of inclusive career pathways at DocYsine.

In his role, he leads the inclusive career function across early career talent. And he is a diversity champion who enjoys bridging the gap between diverse talent and exciting opportunities. Kunda, welcome.

Thank you very much. Excited to be here. Welcome everybody.

Can everyone hear me? Okay, so just a quick introduction. So my name is Kundamin and I am based in the Samsu Bay area.

I am originally from Zambia which is in subsaran Africa and I’ve been at doc about four years now which has been an exciting journey you know it’s never dull here and I’ve learned quite a lot you know initially when I started docysine I was a recruiter that focused on all of our hiring for new grads within our engineering space and then I started managing the internship program you know for for the summer interns as well as our sales interns as well. And and then I got promoted to leading a team of three engineer three recruiters that support that supported our product function our trust and security function as well as DTS function. And then now my current role is the manager of inclusive career pathways and I’m leading a team of two.

So very excited about being able to lead this area of our business as we look at diversity and how can we hire diversity backgrounds and create inclusive workforce within docysine. Okay. So I’m excited today to be able to talk to you about the imposter syndrome.

Okay. All right. Thank you so much.

Okay. This topic before I continue just wanted to give you a short agenda. We’re going to look at how do we define imposs and what are some of the manifestations of impulse syndrome and more importantly how do we come overcome impost syndrome and I would like to share some affirmations with regards to to help you with regards to how you navigate syndrome.

You know, I had no idea what imposter syndrome was until, I was working at a company called workday and I remember my manager at the time said to me, "Hey, you know, there’s this workshop that needs to get done. The person that was going to do the workshop is not able to do it. Would you like to do it?" And I said, "Sure, why not?" So, as I was looking through the the presentation, it dawned on me.

I was like, "Oh, so that’s what that is." So, hence I was able to identify what imposter syndrome is. Because I’ve also suffered from imposter syndrome as well. All right, let’s get into it.

So what is imposter syndrome you know most importantly I want to start about to talk about u when the term imposter syndrome was first coined was in 1978 you know by Pauline clans and Susan so 1978 so not too long ago actually you know and I’m going to read the act the best definition I could find for imposter syndrome you know there were some definition as well but this is the one that I in my opinion you know hits the nail on the head. So imposter syndrome can be defined as a collection of feelings of inadequacy that persists despite evidence of success. Impulses suffer from chronic self-doubt and a sense of intellectual fraudulence that override any feelings of success or external proof of their competence.

Feelings of being a fraud. It’s only a matter of time before being ma and mass as an impostor. So let’s break that.

Let’s break that down a bit. The feelings of inadequacy, you know, not good enough, you know, not smart enough, etc., etc., etc. The persistent feelings, you know, of just not being good enough, feeling inadequate. So I also want to talk about the stories that we tell ourselves, you know, because we that’s really really important.

And I’ll share my my own personal opinion too. In life, a lot of us something may have happened, an event may have happened in our lives, and then so we’ve created a story around that event. Maybe you were told at some point that you well you know you’re not good enough or someone said made a comment like you’re not smart and and and that stuck with you and so you tend you know you can replay that same story over and over again and that keeps you getting stuck in terms of feeling like you’re not good enough or not smart enough or you’re not capable enough.

And on the other hand, you know, people around you may look at you will look at you and say, "Wow, you’ve done all these wonderful things, you know, and look people look at you as as as a winner, you know, someone who’s very successful, but in your mind or how you really feel internally is that you’re still not good enough, you know, that you’re not capable, that you’re still a fraud, you know, and and it’s really important that we realize, you know, that term and understand what an imposter is, you know, help us really navigate, you know, and be able to overcome that. You’re not an impostor, you know, those feelings around of an adequacy because of how you feel internally. Okay.

Besides all the fears that you may have and I wanted to talk about this this percentage 70 7% of people experience imposter syndrome. So impost that’s a large number of people that have experienced imposter syndrome. So imposter syndrome does not it does not discriminate you know it affects anybody you know at you know any level you know within their lifetime and it’s not something that has to continue you know I think myself too you know when I when I was thinking about this topic too when I first had the aha moment of what an impost was you know I was looking at my own self experience you know and and and that was when I realized oh yeah yeah I have I’ve also experienced imposter syndrome you know and I’ll talk about how that that had manifested in my life you know how and when it when it does start to manifest in my life I can I can identify it and we’ll talk about those things as well okay as I mentioned before you know in 70% of people you know have experienced imposter syndrome and it does not discriminate I wanted to show you these three very important amazing people you know Michelle Obama Angel and Albert Einstein all very successful people you know and so the reason I’m showing this to you is just to let you know that even people as successful as these three have experienced imposter syndrome you know and I was kind of surprised too when I when I you know initially because I only thought it only affected you know only a certain few people but you know 70% and here are these people that have been very very successful who have experienced imposter syndrome so rest assured you know for all of you or some of you that who have experienced imposter syndrome that You’re not alone.

You know, this impacts a lot of people. Again, 70% of people have experienced imposter syndrome, but they’ve been able to overcome impulsive syndrome. So, it doesn’t have to stay with you for your entire lifetime.

Okay? And we’re going to talk about ways to be able to manage what imposter syndrome when you have those feelings. Okay?

Mindset is important. What we think or how we think about stuff and things. You know, our mind can be a wonderful place and our mind can be not can be a scary place at sometimes.

So someone who experiences imposter syndrome in their mind, you know, their brain is telling them this is their assumption or their perception. It’s like well so the blue part there is what they think they know. Oh, you know, I only know this small amount of of stuff or maybe on this particular subject and then everybody else around me knows more than I do.

Think of the classroom you as an example. You’re sitting in class and your professor’s teaching you about a subject matter and you’ve got questions. You’re thinking, well, you know, I don’t want necessarily want to raise my hand because I I don’t want to seem like I’m the only person who doesn’t fully understand or comprehend what’s being what’s being taught.

And so sometimes it takes one particular person to raise up their hand and and ask a question and then you’re like wait a minute okay then you look around they all these other people that you know were confused and not necessarily you know clear on what’s being taught you know so don’t always assume that you know just a little bit that others around you know know more than you do. In actuality, the reality is you know just as much as you know maybe the next person next to you on that on that particular subject. So really being able to think about your mindset is really an important piece you know in how you in that in how this can lead you to you know really think that you are an imposter experience imposter syndrome.

So we think about the mind you know in terms of how that in terms of how that does affect someone with imposter syndrome. Remember you always know just as much as the other person does. This part is is I want to talk to you about personality types you know in terms of how this affects people that experienced imposter syndrome and and I’m also going to share my this is where I’m going to share my personal experience in the personality type here you know for people who struggle with feelings of being an imposter so if we look at the personality type of someone who is a perfectionist you know a perfectionist is something that I can ident identify you know as you know and I’ll share a story my career journey has taken me in I’ve done quite a lot of things.

Initially I wanted to be an artist and you know my father said oh god no you’re not making any money you’re going to be poor you’re going to be the starting artist. I said okay well let me type into some of this creative. So I did study when I went to college my first field of study was marketing you know because you can be a bit more creative in marketing you know but my degree is actually not in in marketing it’s actually in liberal studies.

So the perfectionist part for me when I did get into at some point get into the career of construction you know I had met an artist who was a general contractor and he remodeled homes and so I had spoken to him and I got hired you know this is when when I had worked at a corporate job and we had layoffs a long time ago and so it was an opportunity for me to say okay well let me try you know something that’s a bit more creative and I can use my hands. So met this artist Jenna contract hired me and we were doing remodeling of countertops you know really and just really kitchens and so forth and so it was very very exciting. The thing that I got that appeared to me the most was tile, you know, putting tile whether it’s on the floor or bathrooms, what have you.

And that’s something that I really felt I really liked and was drawn to. And there was a comfort in in just doing the whole work, you know, help me get into a bit of a zone. And I I was just the perfectionist part, you know, really stepped in where I wanted everything to be perfect, all the corners lined up.

I remember we were working at an airport in San Francisco. I’m based in the Bay Area so in San Francisco. I remember we were doing what would would be a coffee shop, you know, at the at the hotel.

And so here I am, you know, laying down the tile and just trying to do perfect. I remember the poor woman at the time saying to me, kind of we’re not trying to create a grand piano here. Put it down, you know, and that’s me trying to be a perfectionist, you know, and so the perfectionist, someone who struggles with imposter syndrome is a perfectionist.

Making sure that everything is perfect. That’s the competency. And if it’s not perfect, then I am an imposter.

I’m not good enough. That’s that personality type of someone who where it comes up in feelings of imposter syndrome. They should be able to know that because they’re inherently intelligent and if there’s anything that they do not know then they have feelings of being an imposter.

Okay. I mean the expert know it all. I know everything right now.

I know everything there is to know about this subject matter you know because I am the expert you know and they feel incompetent or you know experiencing syndrome when they realize that they they are not the expect the expert you know on the subject matter or whatever they’re working on and then the other part is the rugged individualist you know this is someone who thinks they can do everything on their own you know I can figure out myself I don’t really need anyone else. You know, I’m I’m an expert. I’m the natural genius.

I’m the perfectionist. You know, I can do this all by myself. And if they’re not able to do so, then they have feeling of imposter syndrome.

Aha. Yes, I am, you know, I am an imposter. And then the final one is a superman, superwoman person or student, you know, which I I like to call this like a someone on steroids with the rugged individuals, the expert and the natural genius or wrapped in one and the perfectionist.

I think all of them fall into the superwoman, superman and person or student. Doing all the things and doing them all well which is really and doing them by themselves too which is really a difficult thing to do for someone you know I haven’t met anyone yet you know who who’s got all those who’s a super person can handle and manage everything all at the same time you know and when they’re not able to do that then those feelings of inadequacy and of an impostor falls into place you know so you know just for you all to think about as I’m going through this like which of those you identify with those that have experienced imposter syndrome you know is just to hopefully you take note of okay where do I fall into this category if this applies to you for me it was the perfectionist for sure you know and when those things come up I’m able to say okay there you go there you go don’t need to be perfect you know let’s do the best you can let’s dive into the manifestations Impost syndrome. How is that, you know, how does imposter syndrome manifest manifest itself in in our daily lives, you know, work, school, you know, let’s discuss that.

So, someone who experienc manifest in, let’s say, overpreparing hard work. Okay. If I’m at work or at school, you know, and my manager or my colleagues see me or my teacher see me sees me that getting, you know, making sure that I’m prepared and I’m working really hard, you know, showing up and they’re going to overlook, you know, the things that I’m that I’m not so good at.

So, I’m going to make sure that I I show up as someone who really comes in works really really hard. They show they see that I’m really working really really hard and so therefore they’re not really paying attention to those things that I’m not very good at. Okay.

And then holding back well you know maybe if you know I’m not necessarily committed to everything you know as much as I should you know but I’m making the effort you know then they can oversee you know that I’m not necessarily being able to understand everything that I’m supposed to be understanding or being able to have the capacity to do everything that I’m supposed to be doing and so you know they can overlook that you know and then maintaining a law or everchanging profile, you know, you are working on a on a on a project, you know, and you’re moving from one project to the other project, you know, I’ve done this project, like I’ve done my PCS, I’m going to move to the next project. So therefore, they see that I’m showing up and doing the work, but you know, I’m keeping a low profile so that at least they can they can not necessarily see some of the areas that I’m not necessarily very professional at or not very good at, you know. Use of charm for win of approval.

Well, you know, if I’m nice enough and everyone likes me a lot, then, you know, they’re going to like me as a person, you know, I’m charming, you know, and therefore they can they can overlook any of the areas where I am not necessarily very good at or where they can see my areas of of where I don’t necessarily thrive. So I’m going to you know I’m going to use you win them by by charm then procrastination. I think everyone of us can a lot of us can have sh experience of procrastination you know waiting at the last minute to do something.

You know oh hey you know what I was I waited until the last minute but I was able to accomplish that that’s great you know instead of just waiting. So you wait in the last minute. So if anything does come up, you know, there’s an excuse for you.

You can create an excuse or you can give an excuse for why, you know, something was not done right. So you wait until the last minute. Never finishing you start a project, you know, find an excuse as to why, you know, you didn’t necessarily finish that, you know, not asking for help when you should, you know, moving on to the next thing, you know.

And then the other one, self-sabotage, you know. Self-sab is self sabotage is a big one we find an excuse so let’s say for example you’re in school right and you’ve got a paper that’s due you know and you said okay you know what I’m going to go the night before it’s due the night before let’s say it’s Tuesday and the paper’s due on Wednesday and yeah I’m going to go out with my friends the night before so you do that and then you the paper’s due But you haven’t done it, you know, and then you create an excuses why you haven’t done it, you know, because you don’t feel like you can do a very good and enough job, you know, but you have that excuse, oh, this happened, so I was not able to do that, you know, and those feelings of inadequacy persist. Okay.

So these are some ways in in in in which someone who is suffering from imposter syndrome this is how this is some ways that the imposter syndrome can manifest you know so please be on the lookout for those and I hope you know for any of you that do suffer from impost syndrome can at least identify some of these behaviors that we perhaps practice you know and being aware of those behaviors when when they pop up and saying ah okay here I go again. So, let me just take a deep breath and let me level set and move forward. And I am still I am good enough.

So, here’s some manifestations of of how the imposter syndrome can can show its its head if you will. Okay. So, how do we come overcome imposter syndrome?

Okay. It’s important as as I mentioned earlier, know the signs. Know when the signs are coming up.

So when you are being that perfectionist, so take take a moment and say, "Okay, take a deep breath and say, okay, well, okay, I’m recognizing right now that I’m feeling as an impostor because now I’m trying to make all these things perfect. It doesn’t have to be perfect." Okay, so know the signs and when you know the signs, feel find some ways to be able to cope and move forward. Okay?

Change your mindset. I’m going to talk about the growth mindset in a bit. Change your mindset, you know, in tell in terms of how you feel about yourself, how do you feel about the situation, you know, change your mindset is very important.

We talked about earlier on, you know, the mind, you know, because the mind can be is is is a is a is a place that can be really helpful for us and can be, you know, not so very good for us. So, change your mindset. You are capable just as good as as and smart as anyone else.

You have the tools, you know, you can get help if you need the help, you know, change that mindset. And I think one of the things that’s also important is, you know, saying yes to opportunities, you know, and this this kind of ties in with the growth mindset that I that I’ll talk about in a few minutes, you know, say yes to new opportunities. Challenge yourself because in challenging yourself, you learn.

And in achieving some things, you know, and overcoming some things, you you get you get to gain confidence, you know, in yourself and your abilities, you know, and surrounding yourself with people that that can help you and and push you up. Fear, yes, that part the fear fear can be very very very paralyzing for people sometimes. So you know overcome that fear you know and for the most part if you think about fear you know a lot of times it’s centered in our mind you know we create this story you know and so it keeps us stuck on you know not moving forward of finding ways to avoid doing something.

So walk through that fear. Typically when we walk through that fear with fear there was not it wasn’t as big as we had created created something to be. It’s not the story that we created was not as big as as a as the task itself at hand, you know, and you pass that walk that through that fear, you know, and you feel so much better.

And it’s always when I think about people with fear, think about a time when you overcame somebody, you know, and that helps you move to to that move through it, you know. So really think about ways to, you know, to overcome fears. Talk to somebody about it, you know, get a mentor, you know, get some help.

It’s okay. We all need help. It’s okay to not know everything again.

Yeah. So, definitely walk through that fear. Mentors are very important.

You know, one of the things we’ve worked here too, you know, we do have a mentorship program here at Docyign which is really helpful for. I think everyone needs a mentor. You know, everyone needs a sponsor.

Someone that, you know, we can combine in, someone can help us, you know, overcome just get some feedback, someone that can help us navigate work, navigate school, navigate life. You know, another sounding board that can help you, you know, and it’s always nice maybe someone who’s also been through maybe a certain situation or has more experience can really help you. And your mentors can be, you know, you can be mentors for one another too.

Okay. Coaching, coaching, you know, kind of ties in with mentoring, too. Finding someone who can coach you through something, talk through something, you know, have you considered doing this?

You know you know what makes you feel as an imposter you know what things can you do to to look at things a different a different way I like to think about you know if you look at glasses right you know sometimes sometimes your glasses get fogged up and you take a cloth I wear glasses and you take a cloth and you wipe that cloth and all of a sudden you know things a little bit brighter you know so a coach will help you look at some things you know gives you a different perspective okay so get a coach you know a mentor, you know, sponsor, someone that can help you and someone that you can, you know, really feel comfortable talking about those things, you know, honestly. Yeah, focus on the facts, not the stories that you’ve created, but the facts. What are the facts?

You know, what is really happening right now? Okay, so I’ve got this paper that’s due, you know, let’s say on Wednesday. I’ve got a week, you know, to do that.

Those are the facts. The paper’s due on the week. This is this is what’s required for me to do.

Okay? Stick to the facts. Don’t don’t create the stories because the stories are the ones that get get us stuck, you know.

So, focus on the facts. This is what’s really happening. This is what I need to do.

And focus on those things. One of the things that’s really important for me, you know, is is really I mean here at Doan, we’ve got this we use a Slack channel for recognition. You know, if someone does something well, you know, you recognize them, you know, and I I I always tell my team to, and every Friday I send out an email says, you know, don’t forget, you know, to celebrate your successes big and small, because those things add up.

So, celebrate your successes, big or small, because those things build up and and you look at your successes. You look at the week, well, okay, I was able to overcome this and this and that and that builds you up as well. You and focus and and and celebrate each other’s success.

It’s really really really important that you you know you have a community of person that you can family what have you that you can celebrate your your successes on because that really builds you up too. So when you’re feeling like an imposter you go back and say okay well oh wait a minute I’m not because I have all these wonder things all these wonderful successes that I’ve done that I’ve been able to accomplish. So focus on on your success and don’t be shy about your successes.

Share them out and share them with others. You know I manage program too and one of the things that I do with the interns I asked them to create to have a journal to be able to track their journey while they’re here for 12 weeks you know so I’d also recommend for you you know is to have like a journal for yourself that tracks your successes even some of the things like your challenges and how you become overcame some of those challenges that at least you can always go back and and and reference say you know what yes I am having some some success too and that will help you as you’re looking to overcome the impositive signal of of of inadequacy of being not good enough okay let go of perfectionist let go of being a perfectionist that there’s no such thing let go of that and some days you know I want to talk about some days we just some days you know some days are just as good I would share an example story I went back to school to finish my my degree and you know I was a much better student when I was older and I was all about just getting those A’s A’s. Anything else was not good enough.

I remember having this conversation with a friend of mine. She said to me, "Couldn’t the Bes are just as good?" Like, you know, yeah, you know, you’re right. Bees are just as good.

You know, for me that being that perfectionist, I had to get all A’s, you know, and I’ve learned as I’ve gotten older and wiser hopefully, that showing up and doing your best sometimes this is good enough. That’s just what’s good enough for that particular day. Not saying you shouldn’t put push yourself, but hey, bees are just as good, you know?

So, let go of being that perfectionist and just show up and do the best that you can and know that you’re good enough. And then and always I think the most important thing is be kind to yourself always. You know I think we’re worse critic to be quite honest I think you know and I I can just say for myself too I can be I can be the worst critic for myself.

So be gentle and kind of with yourself you know you’re good enough. Take things one day at a time. Ask for help when you need it.

Hey we’ll have bad days. We have good days too, you know. And I I like to I want to share something that u is a tool that I utilize.

You know, is that you know, you can always start your day over. You know, someone said that to me, you know, you can always start your day over. Okay.

You start off your days not going great. Yeah. Take a pause, start your day over, you know, and and you know, it’s really important you really take care of yourself and you find ways to nourish yourself and you find ways to to pick yourself up, you know.

Some days yeah some days you know are difficult so you start the next day you keep going but you it’s always being you know good to yourself and how you talk to yourself is also something that’s very very important. Yeah, treat yourself with kindness. You tell yourself positive things and affirmations which I’m going to discuss in a few minutes.

But yeah, really important that you know you you you you do take care of yourself and that you feed yourself and you encourage yourself because that’s really really really really important in terms of having some tools to overcome the imposter syndrome. Okay, this part I love the growth mindset. You know, we’ve got, you know, you either have a fixed mindset or you’ve got the growth mindset, you know, fixed mindset, you know, where this is all I know.

I don’t want I don’t want to be challenged. I don’t want to change anything, you know. You know, I definitely don’t want any criticism, you know.

I’m going to stick with what I know, what’s working. We’ve always done it this way, and so I’m gonna I’m g I’m going to this is how it’s done. This is the way we’re going to do it.

Okay. But when we focus on having a growth mindset, we’re open to opportunities. We’re open to challenges.

We’re open to learning. Oh, I don’t know this. Okay.

Well, that’s that’s great. Okay. I’m open to learning something.

Oh, at work. Okay. There’s a there’s a project that’s coming up.

Yeah, I can raise my hand to to do it to learn something. So the growth mind mindset allows you to be able to push yourself to challenge to be challenged to learn new things you know and when you learn new things you tend to grow and as you grow it helps it helps build your confidence you know so really think about the growth mindset not a no but a yes yes I want to do that I want to learn I want to help you know how can I help how can I learn something new how can I improve myself how can I improve my skill being open as opposed to being closed. So definitely practicing the growth mindset really is a good tool to have in terms of helping you to overcome the imposter syndrome you know.

So think about that you know u it’s also working through that that fear you know where you don’t want okay well if I fail you know what happens if I fail yeah we we fail all the time you know if you think about the most successful people in this in this world they failed so so many times but you know what they growth mindset of keeping keeping going one of the things that I would also recommend is you know the time that I’ve been I’ve you know, doing something. For example, right now I I stopped eating sugar. I love sugar.

You know, chocolates, cookies, sweets, that was my thing, you know, and and has been for a while. And so I decided over a month ago that I was just going to stop eating sugar. And this I’m talking about processed sugar.

So I told my wife, you know, so it’s always nice to have somebody for me what works for me is if I tell somebody then then someone can hold me accountable, right? And so we can help each other, what have you. And so maybe some an option for somebody you might want to practice is like you know having somebody telling somebody okay I’m going to really practice having a growth mindset you know oh great you know and that at least that person can help you stay accountable that was that’s what works for me so try that growth mindset putting your hand out to try different things learning different things improving your skill set and as you start to do that you know you start seeing those successes that’s going to really help you build yourself up because we’re all capable, you know, and we’re all good enough.

All right, I’m going to end with some affirmations are always I mean I I’m big on affirmations, you know. I think those you know those help me, you know, in my daily practice, you know, spirituality is really important to me and this is one of the things that I like to do is is you know, have some daily affirmations for me, you know. There’s one thing that I want to read that I want to share with you.

I have this thing that I wrote on my wall, you know, that I’m looking at, you know, and it’s it’s a positive affirmation for me that really helps me and grounds me is that, you know, I it says, you know, start your day off with gratitude and acceptance. And for me, that’s a wonderful affirmation that really grounds me that, you know, gratitude. There’s always something to be grateful for, you know, it goes back to like that being gentle with yourself, you know, what are you grateful for, you know, and then just acceptance.

Sometimes things just, you know, go a but I think if you can accept it and move on, it it helps. Right now I’m feeling like I want to be the perfectionist. Okay, let’s accept that.

Let’s take a moment and figure out why. Okay, and let’s move let’s move past that. All right, so every moment provides a new opportunity, you know.

So think about that. So every moment provides a new opportunity for you. Kind of ties in with being able to stop and start your day over.

Okay? You know in in spiritual practice has said you know a breath is is is another new life right so everyone will provide an opportunity and you we can decide right so think about it okay right now you might things might be feel you might be feeling a little difficult but okay what’s the opportunity here I can ask for help you know to overcome that there’s an alo opportunity controlling yourself ties into how do you show up and what is your attitude. You focus on what you can control.

You know, there’s some things that we can control and there’s some things that we can’t control. You know, if technology goes haywire, there’s nothing you can you can’t control that, you know. So, focus on what you can control and then once you and then and when you when you can do that and then just do the best you can, you know, but just focus things some that are beyond control.

So, just focus on things that you can control. You know, step by step. So it was important to you know take baby steps to with some things with a lot of things actually take baby steps okay set a goal I’m going to set this goal take baby steps to get to that to that particular goal and then celebrate that success once you’ve done you’ve done it okay gratitude important know making sure that you know you you thank those that help you you know on the way up asking for help and also reciprocate appreciating that that help that you’ve received as well.

Doing enough. I’m doing a lot right now. I’m not doing enough right now.

You know, one of the things that that I’ve been very interesting for me from looking at this American culture from an an outsers’s perspective, but also someone that’s lived in this country a long time, is that it’s very interesting to me, you know, that we tend in this country, constantly moving, you have to be moving, you got to be doing this, you got to be doing that, just constantly busy. And people find it difficult to just not do anything. It’s almost as though if you’re not doing anything, you’re considered labeled lazy.

And I’m sure if I’m generalizing, this has been my experience, you know, and so it’s just finding that medium pl place where sometimes it’s good not to do anything, just to be still, you know, and I that’s one of my things that I that I practice, you know. I’m actually reading a book called Stopped, you know, which which reminds you how do we find space and time to stop when we’re busy, we have to keep going. And sometimes just taking a five minute break, whatever it is, taking a deep breath and just not doing anything for a while.

And sometimes in those moments is when we find the inspiration. Okay? So don’t fight with like I’m well, you know, I’m doing too much.

I’m not doing enough. Just find find a balance. You know, do what you have to do and rest when you when you when you don’t have to be doing anything, you know.

Be present. You know, it ties into being stopping. You know, getting some time to just stop and relax.

You know, meditation is something that’s important to me. Exercise is important to me. You know, the woods is where I’m I live in the Bay Area, so we’re really lucky to have great woods, you know.

And so that’s my place of sanctuary, nature, you know, so finding a place where you can be present. Maybe just put a timer, you know, whatever that is, put a timer where you can just say, "Okay, I’m going to stop and be present." And I know it’s difficult because we are running you know we’ve got a million things going on but finding that place just to say okay you know what right now and these are things that I do my say I talk to myself yeah because sometimes talking like this is what I’m doing allows you to be present okay I’m having my cup of tea right now okay present now I’m having my cup of tea now you’re present in that moment so trying to find ways to be present will be very helpful self-care and selfcare is really really important finding some time to take care of yourself, finding some ways to nourish what you do. You know, if you’re not, you love art, music, whatever, creativity, find that space to do that because we’re more than what we’re more than the work that we’re doing.

We’re more than, you know, an employee. We’re more than a student. We’re more than that.

So, finding a place to to really take care of yourself. One of the things that I talked to the intern start here is is I have a session on self-care, managing self-care. Because when I first started, I’m just going to go, but I want to I want to prove myself blah blah blah.

And so, you know, you’re running yourself ragged and then you you’re no good when you burn out. So, finding ways to take care of yourself, self-care is a thing and mental health and wellness is a thing. And so, please make sure you know you’re finding some time to do that.

You know, and learn from experience, right? You know it’s a journey you know for all of you that are in school you know enjoy the school you know being in school is such a privilege you know it really is a privilege so just you know as we all make mistakes in life in school whatever we do just learn from that experience you know what what’s what’s there’s always a lesson right what’s the lesson you know and take it from that experience and then you know move on from there you take what you’ve learned you know and practice and take to the next thing I like the last part enthusiasm is contagious Spread it you know spread the enthusiasm you know it goes back to your attitude you know being positive you know is always a good thing you know so when you when you are working on something just try to be as enthusiastic as much as possible goes back to the growth mindset okay great this is a new opportunity let me see what I can do let me see what I can learn let me see what I can contribute to this opportunity you know spread it and if you got something great that you’ve seen that you’ve heard or learned, spread it, share it so other people can also, you know, enjoy it or learn something from it. And if there’s one thing I just want to leave with you before I end here is, you know, really the imposter syndrome is a thing, you know, but you don’t have to be struck by it, you know, look at the signs, take a deep breath, really be honest with yourself in terms of where you are right now.

Is it are you being the ragged enthusiast, the super person? Are you being the perfectionist? Where are you?

Take a stock and then revel it. Move on. You know, and it’s okay.

And it’s okay to have these feelings, but you can overcome them. You know, a lot of it is up here. You know, get rid of those stories that you’ve been telling yourself for a long time.

Okay. All right. With that, I am ending my presentation today.

Hopefully, you guys got a lot out of it. I’m going to now be open to answer any questions you may have. I really appreciate the time to be able to be here and to talk to you today.

Thank you. Please drop your appreciation. We’re going to answer some questions, but I feel like I need a podcast from you just talking.

I was like at peace listening to you, and it was so great. So I hope you saw the comments. Everybody really loved it.

So, we’re going to get to some questions. And thank you so much again. Okay, so we kind of have two questions that I would love to address, which is, as we know, it’s a tough market out there for our students right now to get jobs in tech.

What advice, particularly in this frame of like imposttor syndrome, would you give with dealing with the rejection that comes in this market? Just the self-doubt, the will I get a job? What are some advice you would have for our attendees who are facing, you know, a difficult market and really want to keep a positive mindset?

Yeah, you know, it’s it’s I mean, I get it, you know, I want to share my story, too, you know. I before joining Doyign, I was laid off for 10 months, you know, and I’ve been laid off three times out of my career and and and I share that because it’s really really important. The first time just really quickly the first time I got laid off you know I took that very personally you know and and u luckily you know I mean what happened was the company I was working for was acquired by another company and this this goes back to those things that I couldn’t control things that were way beyond my control and I took that personally I think it was me it was my performance blah blah and I remember someone saying to me I think my boss at the time saying to me hey you know it’s it’s not you you were doing well a lot of us and she gave me the example look around look at all those other people that were impacted by that too.

So all to say is that try not to take this personally. You know I know it’s a very tough market you know but keep going. My recommendation too is you know make sure that you are in touch with people that you may know for example myself at docyign make those connections and keep those connections you know going and just and just keep applying you know I mean it’s I know it’s a very tough point but keep applying you know just keep going.

I know and might also be an idea when I got laid off at at workday. What I did was going back to being accountable. I had somebody who got laid off and him and I would would you know check in each other.

How many how many roles have you have you applied for today? You know how you feeling? Okay, I’m feeling down today.

Okay. He would raise me up and when he was down I would raise him up. So find somebody you know in your community or another another another student, another colleague that can help you get through this process.

I know it’s it’s difficult but has have to keep going. Check in with the contacts all the time so that at least they know when you’re at school too connect you utilize the the career the career center as well. That’s really important.

You’ve got CodePath people here too. Just keep connect and just keep going. I know it can be relative but just keep going and then just think about the wins.

Hey, okay. Today I applied for x amount of jobs. That’s a win.

Okay. Okay. Maybe I had an interview.

I didn’t get it. That’s a win. I know.

I know it’s going to be difficult, but really focus on the wins and and just keep a positive attitude all the time. My recommendation. Yeah.

And and thank you. So yeah, and it’s always good to get some feedback on your resumes, what have you, you know, and and it’s always good to ask is what was some feedback that I can get from from the the interview if you get an interview. Yeah.

And I love your idea of like breaking it into smaller wins, right? Like okay, we didn’t get a job today, but we applied to 50 roles or we did this. And so breaking that down into manageable pieces is really good advice.

Next question is from Briana. What’s one piece of advice you would give someone who wants to reframe imposter syndrome as a source of motivation rather than a limitation? Love that question.

Yeah. Well, it’s I think what you need to do is is figure out what what are the stories that you’re telling yourself. I think that’s a very and this this this really requires self honesty.

You know what’s the story that you’re telling yourself you know you know I mean look at if you look at if I mean for me it was the perfection perfectionist thing you know because I I didn’t think I was good enough right you know and so therefore like okay well no I am good enough I am good enough I just need I don’t have to be that and some it takes it takes what it takes it’s my friend saying that to me was good enough the light bulb went off oh right you know the construction my the boss when I was doing construction telling me hey you know, we’re not building a grand piano. I mean, just just really think about who you want to be. Who do you want to be, you know, and and walk through that fear, you know, let’s reframe it like a good thing.

What I would like to do, what what I would also recommend to you is take a piece of paper and look and write down what are your your your positive attributes because we all have really good attributes. Write those things down and focus on those things that things that you’re good at, you know, and and I think it’s it’s also important that you know, you surround yourself with people that that that will build you up to, you know, I think that’s really really important, you know, and then and then of course you you go back to looking at okay, what makes me feel as as I am as I I am an imposer. Look at that, you know, again, honestly look at that and figure out what’s the story.

Is that really happening right now? Look at the facts, too. I think I think looking at the facts is really, really important.

And then figure out who you want to be and then go after that, right? That’s how you’re going to reframe that, you know, I mean, but no one can reframe it for you because you have to reframe that yourself. This is what I want.

You know, I always like to tell people have a vision board of what you want in life. I want to get this, this, and that. Okay?

And then you know one thing at a time focus on one thing at a time. So who do you want to be? Write down you know of of who you want that person to be and then focus on that.

Hopefully that was helpful. Very helpful. Thank you.

Next question which I think is interesting. I wonder if you think there are differences. So next question is from Timothy.

What are some similarities and differences you see when newer professionals express their feelings of imposttor syndrome versus those that are perhaps more senior and how do you see them overcome and move forward? So if you see any differences, what are they and maybe how they approach it differently? You know, I mean I I don’t think it’s I don’t think it’s it’s really that different, you know.

I mean, you may Okay, so for example, someone who’s maybe in a senior leadership role, you know, may have more respons I’ll I’ll share a quick story. We had a very senior level VP you know here at Doistan who openly said to us you know I experience imposter syndrome all the time you know I was wondering like when are they going to know that I’m a fraud and I laughed I was like wow that goes to show you that you know it doesn’t matter what level you’re on you know we all experience imposter syndrome in some way or another you know our responsibilities might be a little bit different, you know, but the behaviors or the manifestations are going to be the same. Okay, so really it’s it’s not I mean I if I’ve answered the question, I don’t see really any difference.

You know they’re all similar you know they might come out in different ways you know in how they manifest for all of us but you know and overcoming them is really I think it’s always important to talk about it find ways to to to raise yourself up and and really I’ve always been been of the thought that if you talk about something it takes the power away you know and so you know he I mean the fact that he said that it was it opened up a discussion point, you know, we didn’t take talking to about so much, but I was like, "Aha, that’s great. It’s great to actually see someone, be honest, and and talk about that, you know." So, you overcome it by discussing it and find some ways to really, okay, how am I going to overcome it? I’m going to take step one, step two, step three to overcome that.

Yeah, absolutely. I think people, you know, maybe more senior people are better at hiding it, but it’s still there, right? And so the the same tools the same tools apply.

Next question, hope I pronounce your name correctly, is from Swaye, which is, "Hello, Kunda. How do we change our mindset when it might have been formed over years and it’s hard to change?" Oh, good question. Yes.

The stories that we’ve been told, you know, maybe it could be our environment, it could be some people that we love, you know, tend to to really form us in a in in in a in in a sense that you know we so we carry you know that the that story how we and so we start to internalize those things and we start to believe those things to be true, right? You know, so how do you change the mindset is is really, you know, again going back and looking at yourself, you know, what are what is what are your assets, you know, what are your assets? Are you are you where you were before?

You know, is this really true, you know? Are you really that person? It really does take I mean going back to it really does take a sense of selfhonesty.

Yeah. When you look at yourself and say okay well telling the facts you know is this really true about me you know and and ask I mean having having a conversation you know I’ve I’ve always wanted I like this thing where when you talk to someone and say you know what am I good at what when you look when you when if you were to u if if someone was to ask you about you know what are what are some of u kunda’s strengths ask the person hey you know what what are the things that I’m what are some of the things that I’m good at because sometimes when you have when you when you’re when you experience impost syndrome you don’t see those things about yourself going back to to you know even having all those success you still feel like you’re an imposter it becomes an internal you know it becomes an something that you have to work on internally you know but but it started like hey what am I good at okay great you’re good at this and that okay great okay that’s wonderful I can take stock of that I can look at those things you know what have I accomplished so far I’ve accomplished all these things so start focusing more on the accomplishment and things that you’re good at as opposed to your as opposed to your deficits you know and I that will help you move forward and just know the signs. Okay, here I am here I am feeling as an imposter.

Why am I feeling that? Why am I feeling that? Take a pause and then regroup again.

I think that’s going to help you if you can if you can utilize those those those mechanisms I think or those tools are really important. Have some tools. What I can say is figure out what those tools are.

Have those tools you know and work on those tools when when you’re feeling as like an imposter and over and over a period of time things will change. Okay, but it’s process step by step by step. Great advice.

I hope everybody’s taking notes here. Next question is from Bunme. How do you combat combat imposttor syndrome in moments when you are not receiving clear feedback on your work?

So, would love to know if you have thoughts there. You know, it’s always good to to go back and and if you’re not clear on something, just go back and and and get some clarity, you know, and and that’s really really important and and you know, and hopefully, you know, you’re working with somebody who can take the time to to really make sure you get clarity on something. One of the things I always like to do with my team, like, you know, do we have any questions?

Is everything clear? And sometimes they you know I mean I might be thinking I’m communicating something but not really communicating something you know the way it should be communicated. And everyone has different ways of of how how they receive information or how they communicate.

So just go back and say hey one of the things I’d like to to do is is to go back and rephrase what you think you heard. So what I’m what what I’m hearing is that you want me to do X Y and Z. Then they can say no no no. What I want you to do is this.

So always get some clarity right you know. So if you’re not if it’s not clear to you come back and say okay. So I just want to make sure that you know you and I are on the same page and I want to make sure that I can make sure that I do this assignment or this work whatever it is.

So what you’re asking me to do is x y and z and then that way at least they’ll say no no what I’m looking what I’m asking you to do is is this. So just go back and ask for clarity you know rephrase back what you think you’ve heard you know what they think their is and that way you can get clarity. Okay and then that way it’s going to that way you’re not internalizing like oh my god you know I’m I’m not smart enough I didn’t get it.

No, no, if you didn’t get it because you didn’t quite understand what the you know, what you asked to do. So, just go back and get some clarity because that would take away all that that noise, if you will, you know, that was going to continue to enforce that, oh, I’m not adequate enough, not smart enough. I’m not smart enough because I didn’t get what he or she was saying.

Just ask for cl have the courage to ask for clarity. That’s super helpful. Thank you.

Okay, last question. And this is how you know you led a great session. Agnes would love to know where do we connect with you after the session and whether you are open to mentoring people.

Absolutely. You know I’m busy but I I’ll I’ll make some time you know. LinkedIn God I I can share my LinkedIn profile.

Let’s see. Is it possible if I shared it with you with Codpath and Yeah, of course I can. I you know I actually probably have it so I can drop it in the chat if I’m able to pull it up.

But you can connect with Kundon on LinkedIn. Yeah, I mean just look at my name too. And you can find me, you know, there and you can connect with me in that too.

There we go. Great. Well, that takes us to the end of this incredible session.

I think this was such a great spot for us to wrap our sessions with Kunda. I cannot thank you enough. I was taking notes.

There was so much great advice. For all the attendees, please drop your appreciation for Kunda in the chat. As a reminder, next up is some great time to network with our companies in our company booths.

You have a three-hour block in front of you as the end of the summit. And so, we really look forward to hearing about those experiences. As a reminder, please fill out the session survey that will be dropped in just a moment.

We really appreciate your feedback. Loved seeing this chat. I feel like it was just such a warm place for us to wrap and so I thank you all for being such great attendees and look forward to seeing you all in a session soon.

Take care everyone. Thank you for joining us in this session. I got some information before you leave.

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