CodePath Career Workshops: Salary Negotiation & Compensation

I feel like whenever y’all see these these videos I always say the same thing. I’m enabling live transcripts it’s like It’s like a little script that I go through so all right. It is 305.

So we’re gonna go ahead and get started. I’m gonna go ahead and share my screen today. We’re going to be talking about negotiation compensation.

And before we get started, how many of you all are or have been in a situation where you had to negotiate, and you can put plus one if you’ve ever negotiated plus one namon that’s awesome. Maybe we can do a little practice with you since you have it at 4 30, so plus one. If you’ve ever negotiated or you’re in the middle of negotiating.

Now. And we’re gonna go through this hopefully give you some good negotiation tips. So let me know in the chat if y’all are have ever been in that situation where you’ve had to negotiate Plus 2, if you have not no shame, no shame in game.

Alright, Namon, this is your first time. Amazing. Okay, plus 2.

Alright. So the good thing about those that are here that have never negotiated is that you will get an a baseline of what to do when you get into that situation I say when because it’s only a matter of time. You all are all part of the code bath family So we’re going to do whatever However, much we can for you to get hired and having CodePath on your resume alone, and having access that’s going to help you Quite a bit so it’s a matter of time on when you get to actually negotiate your salary.

So why are we negotiating today’s agendas Why are we negotiating when we’re going to negotiate what to negotiate questions about salaries responding to initial offers negotiation? Basics and supplemental resources on negotiation shout out to Kelsey. She created this deck, and she is amazing.

She’s not here, but all we shout her out because she has really held us down. Thank you to all other people who joined and a little bit late. But we’re happy to have you.

So why are we going to negotiate salaries? Why is that a thing? And you can see some of the reasons here, right?

It can help you decide between competing offers. You can. This is a big one.

It can prevent resentment from happening later on, because, you know, sometimes you agree to something, and you’re like, Oh, I shouldn’t have done that. Has anyone experienced that plus one of you experienced like Yeah, I said yes. But then I’m like, Oh, no, I don’t want to do that plus one in the chat you’ve experienced that Plus one.

Okay, Yeah. So imagine if you experience that and others money tied. And now the money you can’t you can’t negotiate for more.

And now all of your raises are based upon that right. So So that’s gonna cause a lot of it can cause a lot of resentment. So there’s also people who are less likely to negotiate, especially if you’re from an underrepresented group, or if you’re from an immigrant background, because we are not taught to negotiate I say we, because I am both an immigrant also after an Athena so, and a female, and also have another underrepresented status.

So you know. I’m like a quadruple you know under presenter person, so definitely understand from that perspective, and it’s absolutely absolutely true. So the average increase in salary is about 7%.

When you ask to negotiate. That’s kind of in the middle and we’ll go over this like inner negotiation, and the rest of the presentation. But basically you want to shoot for like asking for like anywhere from, you know, 10 to 20% more.

And then 7% is kind of the sweet spot that you get so 20% is like You’re absolute goal. But that’s why you should always ask for more because it’s probably not going to be that it’s probably going to be a little bit less managers expect you to do so so I’ve had companies where negotiation wasn’t allowed, because they wanted to protect the their presenter groups, but they and so we automatically gave people raises. But to those who negotiated we gave them the raise and we expected that from certain people, not too much from other people.

So it is more of an expectation, and also just to like show yourself how much you’re worth you know plus one if you think you’re worth at least at least 100 k plus one? If you think you’re worth 100 k but at least at least 100 K. Alright, I should see everybody putting a plus one, because everybody on here is worth at least 100.

K. All right. We’re not in the business of accepting offers less than one hundredk.

First software engineer. All right even if it’s like your first job, because what starting offers across the border, especially now, in like remote times, location doesn’t really matter. So if you have an offer that you’re considering that’s under 100 K.

Ask, release a 100 K alright. So what is the life cycle of the salary negotiations? So basically you want to.

There’s a time and a place right to negotiate salary because you don’t want to do it too soon, and you don’t want to do it too late. So this kind of depicts where you should like start having the conversation caveat. To this there is, there might be a possibility that the recruiter asks you in the screen how much you’re willing to make, and you can say something like right now I don’t feel comfortable sharing that information but if you want to share your number, I can see if it’s aligned with me?

And then, if they share a number you’re like yeah absolutely that aligns. If you say those words, though, during the screen just know that that’s probably going to be what they’re gonna offer you. So you don’t be surprised if they offer you that and Then if you want more, then they’re gonna be like what you said Yeah, so definitely, be careful to what you say Yes, to especially early on into your research.

We’re going to go through that. So then you Go through run, run, phone screen around 2 phone screen on site, right virtual or otherwise, right after you onsite, and after you get your offer. That is when you have all of the power guess Why?

Because people don’t get offers all the time like It is a myth that everybody gets an offer. That’s not true. Everybody a CodePath.

I truly believe you can because you’re learning how to interview. You’re learning all the skills necessary. However, most of the time it doesn’t result in an offer.

So when you do get an offer, guess what the company has decided that they like you right. And so you now have a lot more leverage, a lot more power to negotiate. And really think about.

Okay, what is it that I want to do? Alright. So something to think about is when if you’re usually receive a verbal offer beforehand.

So you want to say I would love to see a written offer. Could you send me a written offer, so I can review it right there’s a bit of caveat with that. But you want to see something in paper because you can’t prove a verbal offer.

But you can’t deny a written one right so you wanna make sure that you’re always asking for written offers. So when are we gonna like, When are we going to negotiate? Right?

So sometimes we don’t have to negotiate I’m. A firm believer of negotiating. Still even if you maybe have a couple reasons not to as long as it’s a very respectful process, meaning.

You don’t want to negotiate and be like I deserve all this money right? That’s not how we approach it we want to make sure we’re, very respectful, full of gratitude, and things like that. So, with some reasons not to negotiate the offers great right.

I still think, even if the offer is great, you should try to just negotiate to get that practice. But that’s it. But you were told like that they don’t negotiate again, I would say, if you were to like see like in the beginning.

Just ask, you know, if this comes up. Just say okay, what’s the reason behind that for you to understand and stuff like that. But if at the end you still feel like you want to negotiate, you know like you can.

However, if they did tell you it’s going to be a really uphill battle, and you’re not seriously considering the offer. So if you are negotiating just to see what offer is going to be bigger, that’s going to look really bad to the company. So you only want to do this with a company you’re extremely interested in, and if they say yes to all your terms, you’re going to say yes to the actual offer.

So reasons to negotiate right. You have nothing to lose. Absolutely not the worst that they can say, is no but they’re not typically they’re not going to rest in the offer unless you ask an exorbitant amount.

So let’s say they give you like a 100 and a 100 k us bonus plus you know equity etc. and you’re like I want 250,000. That’s not going to you know not gonna fly trust me people have tried, and I’ve negotiated, and I’ve hired a bunch of people and people try this because they are like I read somewhere that somebody got paid this and I’m like but you’re just starting your career that’s not what you pay right. But some people will try so so you know as long as you’re being respectful you’re offered probably won’t get rescinded like 90 9%.

It won’t make sure that when you are negotiating. You’re negotiating with gratitude first so this is not. How many of you believe that negotiation is synonymous with conflict plus one, If you in your mind, when you think of negotiation you’re like it’s going to be a conflictive kind Plus one Okay, I have some plus ones plus 2 if you’re like Oh, it’ll just be kind of like asking someone to lunch.

Nobody do? All right. So it was air that’s a great point You’re like it feels more ungrateful than conflict.

Guess what that is. Internal conflict, so conflict in its forms can be internal or external. So if you have a conflict internally where you feel like Oh, I’m ungrateful for not taking it.

That’s an internal conflict because you actually want to negotiate. But you feel ungrateful so that’s an internal conflict that’s being generated. So there’s a couple of people that like you know it’s fine like we can negotiate but for a lot of people it feels conflictive.

So really remembering like just like the tone that I have when speaking right. That’s the tone you shouldn’t be negotiating from you. Should not be like.

Okay? Well, I deserve this that in the other you know I’m not going to take the job that I’ve had people actually negotiate with me that way, and I’m like no right and then I’ve had people really negotiate with me from like scared and being like, Do you think I could have? You don’t want that either, and So, you want it to be very like firm and assertive, but also with a lot of enthusiasm and gratitude so being like thank you so much for the offer I really appreciate this.

I’m going to take some time to think about it. I will send you my questions via email, And hopefully we can wrap up. You know this negotiation by like a few like 2 weeks or a week.

Max. Right? So again, you want it to sound very assertive.

The reason why I’m sharing with you is because how often do we talk about money right like how often do we really talk about money, plus one? If you spend your life talking about money to other people or plus 2. If you’re like what I can’t remember the last time I had, and negotiation conversation right plus 2 we don’t talk about money.

But what we do is negotiate quite often, because if you think about Maybe your friend or your family let’s say going out to eat and they say I want pasta and you say I want pizza, or I want sushi right there. You’ve entered in a negotiation right so there’s 2 ways. The negotiation could go it’s like, if like it’s a family member, you could be a little bit more you know assertive and be like no but I really want sushi, and then I can kind of you know kind of go back and forth.

But typically if it’s like a friend or somebody who’s a little less close. It’s a little bit more respect and stuff like that you know you can like have that friend mindset and be like, hey? This is just like me talking about sushi versus pasta with my friend right?

And that can help you get into that energy of what you should be sounding like in in negotiation. Conversations. So what can you negotiate?

Right like those are things that you can negotiate. You can negotiate your salary, which is number one right? You can also negotiate your start, date your relocation, your schedule, your 401 K.

You can you can negotiate your vacation. You can negotiate you know what you’re gonna be working on. You’re gonna you can negotiate like your like pay your pay raises and your pay raise rate, so you can negotiate a ton of things right?

So it’s important to keep in mind so when I first started. I would negotiate vacation because I love to travel I’ve been to like 26 countries. And I did that all in my twenties, while I was like fully employed.

Now that I have my own business and I work remotely I don’t travel half as much, which is funny, because it would have been so much easier to do it this way. But what I did I would negotiate vacation a lot, because I knew I was going to go travel so for internships. You want to make sure that you’re researching tech salaries So things that are helpful are things like levels.

Fyi glass door. Indeed, the Bureau of Labor Statistics. Anything like that you can go I think it’s like pay forget there’s one more website I can I can send it out after this, and you can go in and see how much interns are getting paid in your area.

You want to make sure that you want to see how much you’re living senses are, and like, okay, can this actually cover me. You want to create a proposal, and more of like a proposal. Sounds a little bit more formal.

You want to create an email right kind of outlining the reasons you want to negotiate. You can’t just negotiate because you’re like I think it’s a good idea you have to actually say the reasons why right? And if they say no pay scale there you go Timothy that’s absolutely I was thinking, pay velocity, and I was like that’s not it.

It’s absolutely not it so thank you timothy it’s pay scale. But there’s always a chance you’re gonna say no so you gotta you gotta see? Okay, like if they do say no, what am I gonna say?

Right? And and how am I going to react alright so do I have any questions so far? Because I’ve been kind of going pretty fast Okay, no questions.

Everybody feels like they know how to negotiate Okay, alright. So we’re going to move on so when you’re answering questions about salary. This is probably where the first negotiation starts right.

You don’t want to talk about you don’t want to tell your salary range right? Because what happens you don’t know what the salary range of that company. Is.

So I think there is somebody here I don’t remember their name or I’m not going to share their name. I do know who it is. But he was saying, Okay, Well, I want to negotiate with this one company for this amount of money.

And then, when he went to another company because he had, like 2 internships back to back, they actually gave him a number that was way higher than what he wanted. So had he shared his number proactively. Guess what, they would have met him at that number.

Because guess why businesses want to hire you for the least amount of money possible. It’s just a business decision right so you so you don’t necessarily want to lead with what you think is going to be a good range. But you want to wait for them to actually tell you right so ways to avoid the questions.

Or anything like negotiable depending on total compensation package. I don’t see salary being an issue as long as it’s within market rate. I expect to be paid in line with other employees I prefer waiting to discuss salary.

If you have to give a range of range of like 20 to 30 K. Using salary research resources. So a good way to think about your salary range is like your ideal salary.

Is this or your your the low end of your range is your ideal salary? You’re like absolute lowest salary right then you’re gonna add about 10% to that, and that’s going to be your mid range, and then you’re going to add 20% and That’s going to be that’s going to be your like high end, right? So even if you give that range you’re still getting the minimum salary that you wanted Okay, So There’s a couple questions that are reasonable things to mention in your proposal for instrument position.

So things like I’ve worked you know you can outline I’ve worked on different different projects that like directly affect your company. You can also outline any offers that you’ve gotten you can also outline, you know, based on this research. This is what you know the market rate is, so I want to be paid and compared, you know, in in the same line as other employees.

So you can say any of those things I don’t know if that answers your question. Aisherya. But if it yeah, okay, perfect.

And Sarthak, what figure do you enter an online application? You can. If you have to enter a number, I would say it really depends at some of them like, if it has to be higher than 0 I would be, I would enter the higher range of your higher, or the mid number of the sally range that you asked for, because you never want to lead with the low number because if they can’t meet you there right they’ll probably try to like talk it down lower, and So you’ll accept an offer that you really don’t want because you already figured out a number that works for you so I’d say that middle number, that high number depending on what you’re thinking.

Alright. So negotiation basics. So using email versus phone, I would say, who here feels they could have a negotiation conversation.

No problem like they could get on the phone and negotiate, negotiate, negotiate, negotiate Plus one of you feel like you could handle a negotiation conversation on the phone. Okay, James, all right, plus 2. Anyone else feel like they can handle a negotiation conversation on the phone Yeah, I sure you exactly plus one.

All right, start back. You go. You go!

Do that have that conversation plus 2? Is Duke Absolutely so. A lot of these things that you outlined are completely are completely right, and also something to think about.

The person on the phone with you is a master negotiator, because they negotiate with everyone. They hire right. So if you cannot keep up in a phone conversation, and that might fluster you you want to make sure that you’re putting yourself in the situation that you’re going to feel the most comfortable, and because salary negotiation is not easy.

So just like James I Sharia and Duke were saying, you know, and and mar you know, using email is going to give you a paper trail right? It’s going to give you convenience it’s going to give you time to think and answer. So you can actually craft a message.

I can review it for you. If you ever need Kelsey can review it for you, and then it’s really going to help you kind of have some time to think and ask for exactly what you want. So if me, I would say email over the phone, and you can just say, Hey, Thank you for the offer.

I would love to see the written offer, and I’ll get back to you with any questions that I have all right, and so they’ll send over the recent written offer, and then you can negotiate from there. We have negotiation templates and also that like on Timothy. I don’t know if you can send the negotiation template.

If you could that’d be great and please and in those templates you can see like how you would structure it. But to typically it’s but typically it is really about, like, you know, kind of like showing gratitude, and then going into and explaining like one or 2 reasons why you want to negotiate right? You also want to be really genuine in your negotiation.

You don’t want to just do it because you want to get more money. You want to just be like, hey? This is something that I think I truly deserve right.

A lot of us don’t feel like we deserve again. The most. But we have to work on that, so that when we ask for it is coming from a genuine place.

Okay, and Then you want to make sure that you have a walk away number. So let’s say that they’re like Oh, we can’t do any of that you want to be prepared to walk away right. And so, being very, very mindful that if you try to negotiate, and they can’t meet it like, what are you going to actually do right?

And so you can actually have somebody review the the message you send. So again, Mayor keelsey and Then you can send it out, because negotiation can be scary. You’re not alone we’re here to support you all right So what we’re gonna do now is we’re gonna do.

Maybe some negotiations role play, cause we I really want to. People to understand what negotiation sounds like and what it can be like. So this is going to be more phone versus email but again There’s a lot of templates.

Timothy just sent the salary Negotiations guide, and so you can take a look at that for the email templates but so for now for the following like 15 min. We’re going to do some salary negotiation role playing, and then at the last 15 min will be questions all right. So.

I think there is a foo There was I believe it was Naman who has a negotiation conversation coming up at 4 30. So, Namon, do you want to go ahead and unmute yourself and like be on camera so that we can kind of practice negotiating? Yeah, sure.

Okay, perfect. So tell us a little bit more about the position. Where Where are you interviewing at what’s the position and what exactly Are you negotiating?

So I am currently negotiating to aws for a Sd. One full time position thank you let’s give Naman his flowers, you know. Clap for him.

He is he is going to amazon y’all hey? That’s amazing. Thank you, yay awesome amazing to hear.

Okay, So what exactly do you want to? Have you gotten a written offer? Yeah, I’ve got a retain offer last week.

Okay, yeah, So I I I want to negotiate on the Bcel that they are offering on the base salary. Okay, And what are you negotiating? New one middle Yeah, if you’re not comfortable giving specific numbers?

That’s fine, but like maybe a percentage if if you want to do that in set. Yeah. So whatever they are offering, I like, according to my market research, I deserve at least 20 K.

Increase in my base salary, but I am prepared to walk away like 10 or 12 K. Also. Okay, So you’re prepared to say yes, and except for 10 to 12.

K: Yeah. Okay, awesome. So what kind of conversation have you had with the recruiter So far?

I heard a conversation with her last week, and she just explained me what the offer was, and that was basically 8. And now I I am supposed to you know I I have a conversation with her today, for, like 15 or 20 min. Yeah, I’m supposed to you know tell her what my expectations are okay, awesome.

So have So you’re gonna be using a phone method versus email. Correct? Yeah, I’m I’m I kind of walked into the phone method.

I have to say that was not the best decision that I made. Okay, So in this situation you can still cause it’s at 4 30. So you have like an hour.

You can still be like, hey? Would you mind if I send you some questions via email? We can go over, so you can see if you want you have more of a outline for your salary.

Negotiation, Umhm conversation. So can you tell us a little bit more about how you got walked into that? Actually, actually, it was not I created it was all my all the people that I took advises from, and they said that it’s better to negotiate on phone and that way.

You can explain your word to them. And you know an email would be just about You know how much you are expecting. But the phone can give you an opportunity.

Of Why, you are expecting that? What’s your worth? And why do you think that you deserve a raise for that.

So I I kind of walked into that one. I, you know, since everybody I knew told me that. So I was like, Okay, let’s get you the call Okay, So you can also do that via email because I definitely understand.

Right? So you can also do that via email. You just have to kind of outline that and be like And, you know, be able to put it in that email format.

But you can definitely do that via email you don’t have to do it over the phone, and that’s what I say like. If you are in this position you can always email me. I can always look over your negotiation email.

So yeah. So how are you feeling specifically about the negotiation feeling? I’m a bit I don’t know.

Scared is something that I am as of now but yeah I’m, just you would say, I’m concerned. Okay, and what is your main concern my main concern is I mean, I don’t know how this conversation is going to play out. I don’t know like I have never negotiated in my life before.

So you know definitely all the people says that the that person will definitely say that, hey? We don’t have that kind of money and all so How am I going to, you know, meet them believe that. Okay, like, I I know they have that kind of money it’s just that.

They are not giving it to me, so I don’t know how to make them. You know, Give me that money. Okay, So based on what you learn here today, or what you knew before, How would you want the conversation to go?

And what what tools would you use in order to you know secure that money? Yeah, Okay, So there’s a trick that I I don’t know. I don’t know where that where I got that from So the trick here is like, apart from being very very much gentle and grateful to her, because she, you know, gave me that offer I scheduled this conversation in at 4 4 fourth I deem a thursday evening so I mean it’s about It’s about time that she’s she might leave the office, so I I don’t know if she would fight me that much around around the time.

Well, you are supposed to of your work I don’t know. I mean, this is something that I would do. So yeah, I mean, apart from that being very grateful to her.

And you know, speaking already soft phone. I would say oh, sorry about this. I don’t know what I pressed so let me share my screen again.

All right, so we’re going to go ahead and well since we’re here. I’m just going to go ahead and we’re gonna start So the reason I went through this with y’all is because I want you all to be able to ask yourself all these questions. Right.

Who am I speaking with? Why am I choosing this? You know.

How can I kind of empower myself so all right Naman Haineman? We’re gonna start so hate him on we’re so excited to have you be part of the aws team. Thank you so much for scheduling some time with me.

So you know, as we discussed, this is the offer that we are giving you. What are your thoughts? Hey, Guysina!

So happy? Thursday. First of all, and you know, before, when we start this conversation, I would really like you do thank, like for the offer that you have provided me.

And working with that a tech. Joints such as Amazon is all, as always, you know, a big goal of mine. And now, having offer in hand, it’s it feels like a dream come true.

So I would like to thank you for that and regarding the offer that we have, although I am really, really really grateful about the offer and the like. The initial salary of it looks very interesting, and as per my current market analysis. I think a person with the experience with as much experience as I do.

And although all the achievements that I have been I have achieved, I think, a base salary of X amount would be a fair compensation for me, and I would like to know whatever what your thoughts are Okay, awesome So Unfortunately, I don’t know like if we can actually do that because that’s quite a significant amount over, you know, typically for, like new grad positions, we are very strict on our limits. And so I’m not sure what we can do yeah yeah, I definitely understand your standpoint. But like, if I tell you a bit about myself.

You could say that I am I. I am a full step developer and I have experience of 2 years in a tech joint as as big as am Ibm, and you know it is that company is really known for its for the quality of engineer it produces and it’s a it really is a testament of my skills I’m I’m I’m myself for masters to rent and you know all the all those semester that I I I’ve been with Nc. State.

I have maintained a food out who perfect Gpa along with the part-time research stands and an open source contributor. So I think that that that can say that. How how I am self managed, and how my time, like the time that I manage is effective.

You know, with all those experience that I already have. And as for my discussion with the hiring manager that I had, I feel like I could be a really really good value addition to the team and the job requirement matches My idea of expertise. So I would not say that I am a new like.

I would not comeare myself with a new red because you know about the not from start starting from the base. I am already at a level that all other engineers in the team are, and I feel like I could contribute more than anybody else. So that’s why I think that you know that the the The salary that I have in mind, is you know is, is, you know, is matched to matches to the expectation that I the rule have with me no I I totally hear you.

I totally hear you so. Let me see what I can do. I would have to get back to you because I’m not sure you know if we’re not able to meet that number.

What would happen. I I trust your best judgment on this. I I trust you that you are gonna get me an amusing deal, and I think that you know You know, you know my profile has been associated with me right from the beginning of this interview process.

So I know that the skills and the feedback that you have received from the interviews, and I believe that you will come up with a good number. Okay, Alright, Well, thank you so much. For this conversation I’ll get back to you, and we’ll discuss next steps.

Thank you. Thank you for your time. Yeah.

Definitely. So how did How did he do everybody? For his first time Beast.

Amazing, pretty good, awesome, awesome, awesome. Wow! Okay, Catherine, I love that.

I love that. Give him the money. Pretty composed.

Look. How do you feel them on right now? How do you feel?

I feel amazing. I feel like people here shares the same enthusiasm as my recruiter does. Good, amazing, awesome, so pretty composed.

So. How do you think you did? I might have a bit you could say I I might have I don’t know.

I might have hesitated a bit in in in the beginning and the middle. But as as the conversation meant ahead, I think I think I made my point. And yeah, yeah, this is this is what I think I am a bit scared as of now.

Yeah, yeah, definitely. So what do you think you could have done better? I don’t know I don’t know what I Did was it good?

Was it bad? Was it Should I have explained myself into like a more over wire deserved that? Maybe that is the case.

So what What do you all think? What do you all think he could have done better? Cause I know he’s great and I agree he was great but we can always get do a little bit better right.

So what can you have done better And it’s okay, we can give them some time right and it’s like It’s a safe space We welcome feedback. All the things less more more assertive. Thank you, Gallo.

Not sure what stack him specializing in, but I think he emphasized that his experience can be an immediate contributor. Yep offer how you’re my Ideal Candidate and providing value to the business. Timothy, any one more person that wants to give.

Okay, maybe You could stress on the fact that the offer was below market rate. And then Odena is says, Are you still going with the plan to use the email route? So.

Yes, so what I would say it has to be more assertive, you know. I think at the end I was very surprised the way that you were like, you know I you know I deserve this pretty much, and in a very calm tone. So I think that was great when I asked you, you know.

What would you do if I didn’t get you the offer you were like, I trust you completely. I think you’re going to give me a great deal because that’s exactly what you should do right. You should definitely put complement the person and be like.

I absolutely believe in you, and I really want to work with you Right? That is how season negotiators do it. I would say correct to a lot of people.

You know, towards the middle at tennessee we’re like negotiating to negotiate right and so I think how I shore I was saying stress the fact that the offer was below market. Rate. And so you can say something like, Thank you so much for the offer that I received, According to my research, it’s about 5%, 10%, 20%, whatever it before below market rate for an engineering engineer in a similar company.

So I would love to understand. You know what how we could get it closer to that on market part. Right?

So you want to kind of you know, level with the recruiter and think of yourself as a team. So that’s why, I say like maybe in these next like 30 min, 45 min. You can write out a draft once we’re done and then you can write out a draft email and then send it to her.

So you have some points to talk about, and so you’re not just like, you know, kind of floundering, and I think that’ll give you a little bit more kind of a grounding. Experience. The second thing, and this is very important and this is what I say to everybody, whether it’s your first conversation, or whether it’s a negotiation conversation.

It is not about you I don’t care how many things and how many masters, and how many of this and how many of you have. I don’t care because that’s all about you what I care about is like, How are those skills going to help me right? And so there’s a part in the middle where you were like Well, I did this, and I did that, and I’m awesome and blah blah blah!

And it’s great absolutely great, but that’s not helping me make my case right. That’s just telling me information it’s like okay Well, I can’t do anything. So you have to give.

You have to kind of make that tie, and you have to be the one that says, well, you know, not only is it below market rate, but given my experience, and what the team is trying to do, I definitely think I would be the best candidate and deserve rate. That is more competitive the reason Why? Is because you’re from my interviews y’all are working on problems that deal with X y and Z.

Tech stack my experience. I have 8 years, 4, 5, 6 years of experience working in this particular tech stack all the way from this iteration to that iteration. And so I think with this experience I could really bring a fresh look to this problem and also help solve it in a very unique way.

In addition to that, I am a master student I do have you know 4 years. I’m making this up but 4 years of experience in the Tech world, and have been in an environment that is very similar to Amazon, or where Amazon is trying to get because I worked at Ibm. So I would be able to step in to that environment with very little training.

So it is something that I would add value in and be able to execute within the first month. Do you see how that sounds? Very different from what you were saying?

Yeah, yeah, definitely. Yeah, I I should improve that so again. It’s you know that’s Why we’re doing this because a lot of folks are not used to talking about the bit.

We think that negotiation is about us it’s not about us it’s about the company, and the value you add right? So does everybody see plus one in the chat the difference between him saying all about his experience, and then me saying how his experience actually impacts him. Being a good employee for the company, Do you also hear the difference, plus one in the chat?

If you do right, the reason I am saying that to you is because if you choose to have a conversation right, you’re gonna have to be able to do that on the fly we’re gonna have to practice, and if you don’t have access to me that day. I want you to be able to look at this recording and go back and see this right. The reason is, you are selling yourself to a company that’s going to use your skill sets to make money.

Right. So they, at the end of the day, are more interested on how, in how your skill sets are going to help them. Be successful.

Then, in all of how you got the skills that’s in the first place, right? So it’s all about making it about them and not about you similar in interviews, Right? Every single time you do a starve method, you talk about what you do.

But ultimately you are ending with what you can do for them. It’s kind of a reframe to go from one like one mindset to the other. All right.

So I think with those changes you would absolutely be ready to negotiate. So I hope that the conversation goes well. I would say, go ahead and draft that email.

And say, you know the offer was below market rate, you know. Talk about your experience specifics with the tech stack and the projects that they’re working on, and then let her know like if you’re able to meet this salary, you would accept on the spot, or you would accept immediately. Right.

That is one thing about negotiation that why we only negotiate with with people that we’re really serious about. Because if they do come back and they’re like hey we’re gonna give you the 20 K. To start today.

You have to be prepared to say yes, So you can say that in the email, and you can say something like I’m really looking forward to conversation. If the conversation goes well, and we’re able to meet if we’re able to get closer to that 20 K. More I’d be more than happy to discuss next steps on in the phone call and accept.

Accept immediately. So, making sure you’re using languages like that so that the recruiter can go back and be like Ok. He’s serious.

He won’t get hired because a recruiter part of their job is to hire people so if they hire you guess what they’re gonna look good to their boss right? So there. They want to be there for you.

They want to be your ally. There? Okay, all right.

Well, thank you so much, Niman. Do you have any other questions? Yeah, just one so do you think that since the call is like 45 min away.

And do you think that it’s okay for me to you know cancel that call And instead? Send an email. Is it too late now, Yes, I think it’s too late.

So what I would do is I would draft that email right? So again. Thank you so much.

I’m super excited to talk to you really looking forward to our conversation. These are the points that I would like to discuss in our call, you know. Once we discussed this on our call I’d be ready to accept immediately if the terms are met.

Looking forward to chatting with you and continuing and super excited to potentially join the team right. It can be very simple, but that way you have an anchor, because what I’m trying to do for you is just anchor. The conversation.

You know, you can have the conversation. And this is why I say emails are always better than phone calls, because with phone calls you only get one shot with emails. You have some time to think about.

It. Okay, but I think you’re going to do well, especially like that energy that you had at the end, like the one that’s like, Okay, Well, I’m worth it. I know you’re going to fight for me that’s the energy we’re talking about all right, so with these last 10 min, and thank you all hopefully.

That was helpful because he he is somebody who does have a real life recruiter call for like hopefully that was helpful to see kind of in real time internship negotiation proposal right a lot of internships don’t actually allow negotiation but again. This is for practice. You want to list one to 3 bullet points, I would say 2 to 3 bullet points, not just one.

The first bullet point you want to list with internship. Negotiation proposals is really about the rate and how it compares to market. And you want to say it’s whatever percentage below market rate for your area, or for a remote position.

Right. You want to root this in you want to root this from a factual perspective. You don’t want to just say I think I just that’s never going to work.

And then the second thing you want to say is reiterate the reason why you’re asking for more things. So like you want to reiterate, hey? I have this experience, or I have this specific project that I did that could help me be like the best intern, or you know the best full-time person.

And then the third thing you might add, is saying like in addition, I would like to negotiate vacation, or 400 onek, or starting bonus, or whatever right, something that’s really unrelated to the salary so that you can still kind of sneak something in if it’s something that’s important to you, or working remotely and things like that. So that’s what you would put in any negotiation proposal in internship or full time. So with this second we have about 10 min left so I’m going to take 5 min, so anybody want to practice with me just saying telling me No, when I ask you for a number Anyone feeling brave.

Yes, okay, Sorry, Doc, We have you on deck. If you could turn on your camera, Hi, can you hear me? Or can just okay, alright, so we’re going to just do a quick 3 min exercise for those watching also for the recording So let’s see if we can get your camera to work I think it’s trying to work there.

You go. Alright, so we’re gonna start do you have any companies that you’re interviewing with. Right now I have a coding challenge coming up with volume on capital management.

Okay, so let’s pretend I’m from any set volume, capital management. Volley on V. O when volume Okay, So this red as volleyball which is funny.

So alright, I’m gonna pretend I’m a recruiter. So. Okay.

So I’m here from volume we’re so excited for you to do the coding challenge you did great. We want to move you on to the first round before I move you on. I really wanted to have a conversation with you around salary requirements.

Do you mind sharing those with me? I’m fine with any salary that is competitive enough for my role of my work, experience, and educational qualifications, and also the market trade going on right now. So I would prefer not to discuss the numbers, but anything that is commensurate with what others are.

Others in similar positions are getting. That should be fine, I think. Okay, great.

So right we haven’t a little bit of a different structure. So we do like to you know individualize our offerings and I know we’re kind of far from it right now, but we want to make sure that we’re in line. Do you mind sharing just like a range that maybe you have.

Well, I saw that the position might be either in Berkeley, California, or Austin, Texas, and I did a little bit of market? Research. So I think around 100 cave dollar per year show should be good for data analysts position like that.

Our thought. No, we don’t want to do that because you want to go back. You Don’t wanna if you have to say it you want me to say it first, right so we can’t fold after the second time.

Alright. So you want to say something like, if I ask you, hey? I really need a range you can see so I don’t want to discuss my individual numbers.

But if you could give me like right away. But if you could give me what typically this position a range for this position is, then I can give you a range based off of that right want to not say our number because what if they were gonna pay you 100 and 35 K. You just look at yourself, and You’re, now getting a 100.

Okay, So who would have done something that to Sarah talk would have been like, Okay, You ask them twice. I have to. I have to tell you, plus one, and be at real honest with yourself.

Right, because when I first started I was like Oh, I can’t whatever you need, I just want this job right so do you see how by him saying like he just gives me I’m like okay, So he wants to enter. K. All right, cool I’m gonna give you 100 K.

Right. But if you push back and it’s like hey? I totally understand.

I would love to understand your range first before giving mine and giving you a range based off of that. Do you see how that isn’t conflictive but It’s very respectful, and it can actually potentially open up the opportunity for you to understand what they’re offering. Do you all hear?

That in that languaging plus one, if you hear it plus 2 if you’re like a little confused. So if they ask even for the second time, they ask for a number I’m not supposed to pay no even for the third time right because they? So basically what what all companies are trying to do, especially now is get you for the lowest price possible.

Okay, you are again from any type of underrepresented background or marginalized background. Right you are jumping at the chance you’re like I just want a job. I don’t care how much you pay me okay and that’s where it that’s where the like taking advantage can happen.

And it’s like historical right, women women and minorities. Typically get paid less, not because they do less work, but because they typically don’t negotiate, or give up their numbers too. Soon.

Right? So you want to be very, very, very careful with giving up your number. Because if they pay you a 100 k right over 50 years, if or over even 10 years, if you could have gotten a 110 that is going to just compound So you don’t wanna give numbers you want them to give numbers first, or you wanna say, and we’re you’re gonna get the slides of this.

You can say any number of those things and say at this point I’m. Not comfortable, really sharing the range, but as we get closer to the offer. I would, you know I’d be happy to do some research once I understand more about the role right?

So we still want to continue, and if they continue asking, you can be like, you know, this is definitely a point where I, you know, I really want to hear more about the opportunity before letting you know. Would that be over, and then continue back and forth again, all respectful not conflictive? You’re not going to yell at someone be like I’m happy to you, remember.

No, we’re not going right, but we’re gonna be very very gracious and assertive in our nose. If anybody wants to practice You know you can schedule some time with me so there’s a there’s a question. What do you say when, where they tell you we can’t move forward without having a range.

So in that case you can ask, Okay, You know, I have my range based on market research, but I would really love to understand, based on other people that have started in my role. What range did they typically give right? So you still want to push back?

Because and you want to push back respectfully. Because again. You don’t want to give up your number most recruiters after you say that you’re they’re like, Oh, okay, they’re serious.

Also if they ask for it, because I know there’s a question of like, can they ask for what you made they cannot to? If they say, what did you make? What did you make before you can say?

You know that information should not you know have any standing with my current pay rate. So unfortunately, I’m not able, to share also another thing to think about is, if they, if you don’t know and they still don’t tell you, you can say, hey? According to like California law or New York law you know I’m I’m allowed to see, or you know I would like, I think, according to California and New York law.

I don’t know what other States are have this law but you can say I’m allowed to see the pay band, so I’d really love if you could share the pay bands with me so I can make a more informed decision about the range that you’re. Asking for right so these are all ways for them to really show you exactly what they’re paying. So you can get pay parity, and that’s exactly what we’re trying to do and I know it.

Feels very uncomfortable. Say no multiple times. But would you rather say no multiple times, or find out that you got mobile by like 20 K.

Plus one. If you would want to get low ball plus 2 if you’re like, Ok, we’re going to negotiate plus 2 or negotiating right, because we don’t want to get low balls I want every single one of you to have the most amount of money possible. This is something I wish I knew when I was.

I was like in your shoes, and so that way that’s why I do this and that’s Why, I really talk about this quite a bit. What With that being said, you can schedule some time with me, with the link in slack and you can put salary negotiation. We can practice.

But thank you all so much. I will send out the recording either later tonight or tomorrow, and you can have access to this recording.