2025 EES ZS: The Art of the Deal: Evaluating and Negotiating Job Offers

Hi everyone, I’m Victoria Angulo with the CodePath team and we’re excited to welcome you to our next breakout session. Before I introduce the session, very key that you all just remember a couple reminders. So, one, please utilize the chat and keep your comments relevant to the session.

Please also take a minute at the end of the session to give us your feedback. It’s really important to us to have that information. With the reminders out of the way, let’s go ahead and I’m excited to introduce the next session.

So, the next session is offers and negotiations with the ZS team. Joe Alam will be joining us as an executive. He’s an executive recruiter at ZS specializing in global hiring at the manager, associate, principal, and principal levels.

Since joining ZS in 2018 in the Princeton office, he has played a key role in shaping talent acquisition across the firm, starting with contingent workforce hiring in North America and a full-time recruitment for support and enterprise function. Over the past seven years, Joe has taken on lots of leadership responsibilities, including serving as the recruiting lead for the client integrated group, leading the advisor program, and driving hiring across multiple spaces and service areas. So, we’re in for a treat.

Today, he focuses on executive rec recruitment and strategy, and I’m really excited for you, Joe, to share a little bit more about offers and negotiations. Thank you so much. Thank you, Victoria.

Excited to be here and thanks everyone for joining us today. Like Victoria mentioned, we are you know here to talk a little bit about negotiations and how to you know best approach negotiations as you you know come across an offer. So again thanks everyone and looking forward to kicking things off.

So we’ll go to the next slide. So, and just quickly, I’m not sure if I can see the slides now. Val, would you mind going to the next slide, please?

Awesome. So, touching on the agenda today, you know, I want to go over kind of building a foundation, kind of understanding what negotiation means and why it matters. How we can prepare effectively, you know, what research planning and strategy development we can do to ensure that we feel really good about going into some of these discussions.

Potentially have the opportunity to, you know, practice together and go over some real world scenarios that you may face and then understand how we can apply these key takeaways, you know, and implement you know, some of the the feedback and learnings today. Pretty much right away. So, we’ll jump we’ll jump into it.

And as we go, please, you know, do not hesitate to put some of your questions and thoughts in the in the chat. But to kick things off, u one word, what comes to mind when you think about the word negotiation, uncomfortable money, hard’s a good one. Balance.

Self-worth. Okay, that’s a good one. Anxious, difficult, all all good ones.

All good ones for sure. We’ll move on to we’ll move on actually to the to the the next slide before we as we continue. So, true or false, negotiation skills are only impactful in a professional setting.

That’s right, Nathan. Absolutely. The answer is 100% false, right?

And I think you know a lot of times with that first question when you know you think about negotiation, a lot of the responses had to do with workplace scenarios, right? Offers, benefits, things like that. But as all of us answered, the negotiation is going to help you really in every aspect of life.

So excited to really talk about these things and hopefully again not only they will help you in the workplace, but they’re going to help help you outside of that as well. So we’ll go to the next slide, please. All right.

What is a negotiation? Right. So as you can see on those slide on the slide I won’t read every everything there but when you think about a negotiation it it really is a discussion aimed at reaching in an agreement that and resolving an issue that both parties find acceptable right and like we just mentioned they really can take place in a a number of different settings whether that’s the workplace whether that’s buying something on Facebook Marketplace or even just some of the conversations that you have every day with your partners, your your family members, your friends, right?

You can apply them at all in all aspects of life. So, I’ll then turn it back over to the chat kind of where’s where are some non-workrelated settings where negotiations may come into play? We already heard the Facebook Marketplace.

Where else can we can we find negotiations? Parenting is a good one. Buying cars is a great one.

Pokemon project management. Yep. Absolutely.

Setting boundaries. It’s a very good one, Jennifer. I saw one in there about negotiating with their mom.

I like that one, too. That probably comes up for everyone. Absolutely.

Absolutely. Now, let’s move to the to the next slide. We’ll kind of venture back into the the workplace, right?

Would love to hear from from the group. What percentage of college graduates negotiate some aspect of their first job offer? Crystal, Daniel, and Ayanna, you are spot on.

Only 30 to 40% negotiate, right? And that even takes me back to when I was negotiating or or receiving my first offer out of college. I was not part of that 30 to 40%.

I did not negotiate because you know I thought at that at that time you see your first offer you you’re not entitled to to negotiate. To Angeline’s point, job’s hard to get. I’m just going to take whatever is handed to me.

But in reality it’s incredibly important to negotiate any job offer at any stage of your career whether it’s entry level or you know it’s as you continue to grow and progress in your career. And even when we think about workers as a as a whole you know glass door and forbes have reported that only 60% of or 60% of workers did not negotiate their first offer believe it or not. So the majority did not decide to to negotiate their their first offer and it’s usually due to a couple things I think.

One is lack of knowledge right about the workplace in general and maybe the the industry company organization that they’re looking to join or joining. Fear right that’s we I think we we saw a few of those answers early on. It definitely can be kind of a scary and uncomfortable thing to, you know, negotiate with someone at at at the company that you’re looking to join.

You need a job. You want a job, right? So, they can definitely strike some fear in you.

And then lastly, a lot of people really felt that that first offer is non-negotiable. And again, as we continue to to speak today and you’ll you’ll realize that it’s 100% negotiable. And there are a number of different areas in which you can negotiate not just on on salary.

So let’s let’s move on to the next slide. All right. And like I just mentioned, you know, some of the the myths around negotiation, right?

I think the first one is probably the biggest. I think that you know many people when they receive an offer the first thing that they looked at is they look at is what’s my my salary right and so I immediately or one immediately thinks this is the only piece that I can negotiate and the most important piece that I can I can negotiate right but there really are a number of different things that you can be that you should be thinking about as you you know receive your offer and think about negotiating you can think about benefits You can think about what your title is, what do growth opportunities look like, vacation time, sick time, number of of different things. And obviously those will depend on what benefits are offered to you at at the spec, you know, the the company that of that you have received this offer from.

But you know, don’t focus only on the offer. Think about the the big picture and the the entire pie, right? I I think if we move to number two, going back to the previous slide, you know, avoid negotiating your first offer.

It’s negotiation is expected at every single level, right? The worst thing that can be done is someone says no, right? Or maybe offers you something in in return that’s meeting in the middle, right?

That’s what a negotiation is. And so don’t again don’t feel like you have to take the first offer that you you receive. Definitely sit think about the the total package and the big picture before design deciding on what you want to negotiate on.

And then the third the third piece you know the worst that they can do is resend the offer. That’s not true. Most organizations the worst that they can do is say no, right?

And and give you a an honest and transparent reason why something can’t be negotiated or why the offer is written the way that it is. So I would say please, definitely, you know, as we get into some of the tips and what you can do to negotiate, don’t ever think that, your first offer is the only offer. And y’all, I’ll add something quick.

Sorry, I saw someone say in the chat to kind of what you just, covered. They can resin the offer. And then I think Angela might even if someone else commented that’s not the kind of place if they do that you want to be in anyway and that’s true right I think a respectable company like they should never resend your offer because you’re negotiating and if that is something that happens maybe that’s eye opening for you right maybe this totally is you know gauging you into a direction you didn’t think because that is clearly not the place for someone to be so I think that’s also something to think about that if you.

Yes, you may be scared absolutely, but you should advocate for yourself. And if the company resends your offer, maybe it was a blessing in disguise, right? That’s probably not the place you want to be in to grow.

So, you should feel empowered to, you know, make those negotiations and things like that. Absolutely. Absolutely.

Yep. And I think recruiters are very comfortable saying no. That is so true. Unfortunately, I have been in so many conversations with candidates that ask for five different things and I have to tell them no at some points and I’ve still had them accept their offer, but nowhere in my brain would I think to resend their offer, right?

They’re advocating for theirel. They’re asking questions. So, totally correct.

Recruiters are used to saying no. We have to unfortunately decline candidates all the time. We have to tell them no. So, we are versed in in having those tough conversations. So we want you all to be you know well prepared and understanding that you can have those conversations as well.

Absolutely. And I think if we go to the next slide, Val, these these steps are really key and really important to help not only, you know, have you come out a little bit better and on the top from in the from a negotiation standpoint, but just really make you feel comfortable and confident in going into some of these conversations. Right?

So you know there there are four steps that are really key to a successful negotiation and they are researching you know planning, practicing and executing. Now before before I dive into these four, what I want to one thing I really want to highlight and and I I feel like is a key takeaway is a lot of these things or especially one and two can can I mean and and three and four you can do at all times but you know one and two should almost start immediately when you start discussions with an organization right you should you should not wait for one and two to for when you get the offer Right? You should have some of these initial kind of discussions with recruiters or with the recruiter you’re working with at a given organization.

You know, doing research on I just saw somebody put put April. Exactly. Levels.

FYI, obviously Glass Door, LinkedIn. There are a number of different you know places where you can go to understand an organization, the benefits, what a package could look like etc. Right? So again some things to to think about you know what are the market standards?

What’s a fair market value for somebody in this role? What benefits do you want and expect for to have in this position? What benefits do the does the company offer?

Right? As you continue to to go through the process, you know, what are your points of leverage as you have additional conversations with team members and you’re getting close to an offer stage, right? And then lastly, you know, who has the the power in the in the negotiation?

Is it strictly the recruiter? Is the how how involved are the is the hiring team right with the with the offer? So just thinking about who the key players are when it comes down to the negotiation.

That leads me into planning, right? So again once we get to an offer and once we have that in hand and we’re thinking about the negotiation, you know, where will you conduct it? Is will it be a zoom a zoom call?

Will it be over the phone? Will it be via email? Thinking about the environment in which the negotiation will take place will influence how you approach it, right?

And how you you’ll approach the negotiation. Who’s joining you? Is it is it a one-on-one with the recruiter?

Is it sometimes you could be in a conversation where it’s the recruiter and the hiring manager? Is it just you and the hiring manager? Thinking about those people.

Thinking about who’s involved in this negotiation. You have to really think about your your argument, right? Your stance.

Are you able to clearly articulate your point and what you’re looking for and why, right? Even thinking about how is that other party going to respond to some of your requests, right? Or some of your suggestions.

Are you able to anticipate some of their responses and and replies, right? So like I said, and this it’s really key to start thinking about these things early on and even keeping a checklist through the every conversation that you have with with everyone in the organization to to kind of figure out where your leverage is, right? And and how they may respond to some of the again some of the leverage that you’re going to present in in your negotiation.

And then when you think about practicing, right, I think we do this for interview prep, right? We do this for a a meeting like this, a discussion like this, right? Rehearse out loud, get feedback from your friends, from your colleagues.

You know, talk to people in your network who maybe have done, you know, had negotiation meetings before. What went well with them? How could how could you improve?

Really refine your your delivery and your approach there. I would I highly recommend that that you do that. And then lastly, that execution piece, right?

I know we said this early on, it’s a bit uncomfortable. The conversation has a has the ability to go in a number of different ways, but just remain confident, feel really good about what you’ve practiced, what you’ve prepared. And you know, kind of think on your feet, right?

Again, I think going back to having some of those maybe role plays with some of your colleagues or friends, you know, they’ll throw some curve balls curve balls at you. So, be prepared to think on your feet and really advocate for yourself based on the, you know, information that you have at hand. So, Val, let’s let’s go to the the next slide.

And so again covering I know I covered you know a lot of a lot of these in this in the in the previous slide. So maybe just reviewing a couple of them, right? You know, going back to where you can look to to research, right?

We’ve talked about someone mentioned Levels.fyi, Glass Door, LinkedIn, you know, USA jobs, healthy careers, DICE, Idealist. I mean, there’s a number of of different platforms and and sites that you can visit and and take a look at depending on your industry and and where you’re applying, right? So, definitely do not I would say definitely exhaust all of those options in finding the best information that you that you can when you think about what you’re going to be negotiating, right?

We we talked about salary. So that’s going to be key. But again, the the benefits and the work environment are just as important, right?

So what do you value in a job? Is it working independently and with others? Is it you know leadership or advancement opportunities?

Is it is it you really want meaningful work? Right? So take those things into account when you are putting together what your negotiation kind of plan will look like.

Because you the a negotiation is always going to be a give and take, right? So you you may lose out on some things, but if the areas in which you find incredibly value, if you’re getting the the areas in which you’re incredibly that you find very valuable to you, you’re winning, right? So always take a take a always think about that.

And then I think the Sorry, Val. I think I got it. Sorry.

Sorry, my computer froze just a bit there on my on my screen, but got it. So going back to you know compensation and benefits right it’s not just a salary you could think about things like relocation expenses vacation or leave time sign on bonuses retirement benefits are there any child care elder care benefits in in that package what do the professional development opportunities look like? So there’s a number of different things that you can think about in that negotiation.

You know, do they help with education, right? Do you get to, you know, have an advanced degree paid for, additional education paid for? Things things like that.

Val, anything that I I missed missed there? No, but I will say from my own experience, I think Joe and I are obviously a bit older than most of you all coming into your first careers, but when I was thinking about my first careers, all I cared about was salary to be completely honest. And it’s good, you know, it’s good to hear these things now as you are starting out in your career.

It’s not really just about the salary. You all are hopefully, you know, embarking on a long career journey. You want to have a lot of growth.

You want to have a lot of opportunities. So, I think looking at those some of the things that Joe mentioned as far as growth and you’re working with teams or even location. I think someone mentioned location early on if you’re really, you know, wanting to be in a specific location.

You know, that those are things that are really important. And so I think, you know, just just honing in on what’s most important to you. Obviously, they’re all important, right?

But unfortunately, we can’t get everything we want. So what what is success look like to you? That’s having realistic expectations where you know the salary is good.

This is what you know, if you’re doing research and you’re seeing that your salary is, you know, what’s on the market, but you feel like you really want more vacation days or you really want to make sure that you’re getting a raise every year. Like these are things you can also think about and prioritizing, you know, what is really really important. What what do I really want to focus on?

Because again, it’s really hard to get everything that you want because we all want more of everything, right? That’s just that’s just our nature. But I think identifying the things that are really most important and really honing in on those for sure are are are the best I I would say possible ways as you’re kind of researching and planning how to approach those situations.

I think something else I do too, I tend to maybe not I write things down. I take notes whether it’s on, you know, the computer typing them out or writing them down. Like writing bullet points and then refining those bullet points to what you want, right?

Like it can be a dual process where, you know, you start with something, you refine your questions, you do more research, you change things around. So, as Joe mentioned, this is not something that you’re just doing like five minutes before you’re having this conversation. It should be something you’re thinking about, you know, early on as well as throughout the whole process of even the interview and what’s important to you.

I think too as you’re going through interview processes, you might realize, wow, I really like this company more than I thought because I love these people I’m working with. So that could also, you know, change expectations where the culture of this company, the people I meet are really great. So can I give on some other things?

Or if you’re going through an interview process and you’re like, I’m only taking this job if I get max of what I want. That’s okay. You’re setting those boundaries for yourself and understanding what is important to you and making that plan moving forward.

Great points. Those are Yeah, those are things I’m thinking about for negotiations. Great points.

All right, cool. We’ll move on to the next slide. All right, so you’ve done all of the research, you’ve done all of the planning, all of the prep.

It’s now time to have that that conversation, right? So, you want to practice, right? It’s it’s as I think with anything and everything in life, the more you’re prepared, the more you practice, the better the outcome.

So just again going back to some of the earlier points really working with trusted colleagues, friends, family to shape what that shape what that conversation is going to going to look like. Making sure that you feel confident and comfortable going into the discussion. And I I’ll go back to to to saying the worst that’s going to happen in a negotiation is they’re going to say no. you have your offer in your hand, that’s a it’s a huge win for you.

So feel comfortable, feel confident going in based on the research and the planning that you’ve that you’ve done and ask clearly for what you’re looking for. All right. I always, you know, you can see a couple of these bullet points on the slide.

I think one of the key areas here that I want to highlight is choosing the phone over email. I would say 10 out of 10 do that. You know, I know there will be times where you’ll have to do some of the have some of these discussions via email.

But really being confident and having you know being able to clearly express your viewpoint and what you’re looking for over the phone. I think sometimes email can get, you know, people can read texts and email and not necessarily get their point across, right? Or that the other person is not receiving what you’re communicating very well where I feel like over the phone it it’s easier to do so.

So that would be I would say my and we can touch on this a little bit later, but I would definitely say phone over email when when possible. And yeah, I think you know from from I think we’re good on this one. Val, I would love to to go to the the next one.

If there’s anything else you want to add, feel feel free. Yeah, I think just highlighting the phone over email. Again, sometimes I don’t want to hop on a phone call with someone because it’s easier to send an email because, you know, it’s not as face to face.

You know, we talked about those anxious feelings and then those uncomfortable feelings. But I think sometimes it’s good to be in uncomfortable situations because you always learn from them and you always get better at those you know situations. I also think too if you’re negotiating over the phone, you know, you can adjust your tone and your language and your like you can you can play those off of the conversation as well.

So again that that comes back into the research being prepared, practicing, executing. So feeling confident over the phone I think is a little bit easier. It also can, you know, just easier to communicate.

Sometimes email can get wordy and messy, whereas over the phone, you’re likely going to cut to the chase and get to the point and it might just be an easier way. I think it’s not a bad idea to do email if you wanted to say, "Hey, I would love to have a phone call debating these points and list the points out because then it gives some preparation to have the conversation, but I do think there should be a little bit more like further conversation than than just through email. Yeah, I and I great points, Val.

And I think sometimes when we move to email for some of these discussions, it can tend to be a bit back and forth as well. Whereas over the phone I seem to a lot of these discussions happen fairly I should say quickly and efficiently let’s let’s say than an email which could take a couple you know a few emails trading emails back and forth to come to a conclusion. To be honest, I would say there’s a lot of times it’s going to be a combination of both, right?

And it’s it’s a it’s may may start with a phone call and then it may be f there may be a follow-up via via email, right? And then there may be another another phone call, but I would I I would kind of lean towards be starting with with the phone and then taking the the rest of the negotiations, discussions from there. Yeah.

Yeah. Jo, I think that’s a great point. I’ve been seeing some of the chats and I know some are saying you know it’s easier to get your points down as you’re right emailing and sometimes you can think on the spot but I agree and maybe a mix of both right like there there’s no way a conversation just to be on the phone and that’s the end of it there’s going to be followup so again I think as someone just put in the chat oh you’ve given me a lot of great info let me take some time with that let me think about that because as a recruiter too I’m not going to have the answer on the call either I’m gonna have to follow up I’m going to have to check with my team.

So, it’s just a way of staying you know up todate and things like that. So, I think it’s good to to expect that it won’t just be a phone call and it won’t just be an email. You’ll be able to probably get both in there.

Well, I think if you send an email first, I it might be too much to be honest. If someone sends me a long email and I know exactly what what I want to say, it’s going to take me a lot of time to draft that email. They’re not going to understand the tone.

So I might then say, "Hey, I would love to discuss this. Let’s hop on a call." And then getting on the phone call. I don’t think it’s necessarily saving or wasting time.

I think those are things that again might be in the scenario. If you’re asking a quick question, hey, can I change the location? And they can.

It might be a quick email back. Absolutely, we can change this. That absolutely might happen.

But if it’s a longer conversation, I personally don’t want to type a four paragraph email to you when I could have a more personalized conversation. I also think a phone call is just more personalized, right? I I just think it’s a little bit easier that way.

But again, an email is not wrong in any way. I just think it is a little bit easier via phone to kind of get that point across. But again, you can say, "Hey, let’s pause this discussion for now.

I need to do some more research." I think whoever you’re talking with should be respectful of those things as well. Great points and great comments in the chat as well. Moving.

So, moving on to some common negotiation mistakes, right? Number one is is the you know number number one and and two right it’s not attempting to negotiate at all like I said most and most people don’t which is which is mistake number one and walking away from the table I think there’s there’s always something that both parties can receive and end up being happy you know with so like I said it’s it’s coming from two recruiters you don’t hear, we expect that a candidate will come back and negotiate every time. Going back to just or some of our earlier discussion just not researching, planning and practicing.

I think that really applies to to everything. But you know in this case from the very first conversation you have with the recruiter to the research that you do about the organization and the type of you know benefits and packages that will be offered to you. The more information that you have, the more planning that you do, the more practice that you have u that you make, the better the outcome will be.

And being you know being thoughtful or you know intentional about the timing of the negotiations right I think Val made a good point previously going even back to the phone call right it just being really really personable or personal thoughtful about how you’re approaching this will go will go a long a long way and I’m trying to think of some of the you know looking at this they’re they’re very very I think pretty self-explanatory. Here I’ll actually go there there’s one one point that’s maybe not not here, but try to limit the negotiation to one conversation, right? It’s like starting with the phone call, then it maybe moves to the email, right?

Then it may move to another another phone call. It doesn’t have to be just a one time a one-time deal. It can be it may take multiple conversations and multiple contacts to land in an agreement.

So, yeah, I’ll I’ll leave it there. Val, if there’s anything else you wanted to wanted to add here. Yeah, I think just the apologizing unnecessarily.

I think that speaks to everyone because it comes back to that right anxiousness in the beginning, that fear where you want to convey confidence, but then once you’re done, you’re probably you’re probably thinking, "Oh, I’m sorry." like I don’t want to make this a hassle for for the other people, but again, you’re you’re advocating for yourself. So, you know, I think it’s natural to want to apologize. But don’t, right?

I think, you know, that you’re asking for these things for a reason. So I don’t feel like that’s something that I think we should think about in all walks of life is just over apologizing. I think that kind of stood out stood out for me.

I do see some chatter in the chat about like offer timelines. So, typically, just for example, at least two weeks is the minimum for our offers here at CS. That’s the minimum amount we’re giving.

If it’s a rush, you’re getting two weeks. So, you will have at least two weeks for your offer. I think for campus recruiting it may be a little bit longer.

Sometimes we abide by school deadlines. Sometimes we abide by three weeks or four weeks depending because typically there’s a long lead time when you’re actually starting. So, I would say most companies, ZS in particular, we give at least two weeks for offers to make Well, I’ll I’ll jump in there, Val, that that’s also something that’s negotiated that could be negotiated, right?

So, if you need if you need more time, right? If we if you receive your offer and they’re only giving you one week, you ask for two, ask for three, ask for four. It’s we we expect that candidates are considering more than just us, right?

They’re considering a number of different different organizations. So, if if you need more than the time that a company gives you, do not hesitate do not hesitate to ask ask for that. Yeah, that’s a great call out.

You negotiate for more time, right? That could be something that maybe you’re interviewing like I have candidates who have told me and I check with my candidates in a phone screen. Are you interviewing elsewhere?

Please let me know if we need to even move up the interview process. Do you need to interview earlier than we were expecting? Have those conversations.

The worst thing we’re learning from this is that most people can just say no and maybe you just interview later than you expected. So I think these are all things that I wasn’t even thinking about. Joe just called out like we can continuously negotiate.

It’s not just salary. It’s not just location. Those are obviously important things, but it’s do you need more time?

Do you need to interview earlier? You know, different things like that. So, I think if this is like a large conversation that you always want to keep thinking about as you’re growing and learning in your career because I think you’ll realize there are a lot more things and we’re even thinking today that you can negotiate, but I think we’re definitely touching on kind of the main topics.

I want to be Cognizant of time. So I don’t know, Victoria, if do we want to move to questions at this time? Just want to throw that out there.

Hi Valerie. Hi Joe. Thank you.

That was incredibly insightful. So really really appreciate your time. So yeah, I think it’d be a good time for us to go ahead and move over into the Q&A section.

How does that sound? Yeah. Cool.

Wonderful. Great. Thank you so much.

So starting from the top, I’m seeing an an up vote for one of these questions that’s really interesting and it’s asking, should you start off your price negotiation on the higher end of the salary range for a job or is that something one needs to negotiate towards? That’s a great question. So I so I firmly believe the best the best practice for this is really understanding the market value and understanding your value.

Right? So I not that I would ignore what the range is, right? But think about what what you’re really looking for, what you value, what the market value is.

And whatever that number is, I would be firm on. Right? If if the range is I’ll again I’m just just for the sake of of round numbers.

If the range is 120 100 to 120 and you need 115, be firm on that on that 115. Right? So, and be transparent about that upfront with with the recruiter because once you, you know, get to an offer or get to the end stage, it that won’t be brand new information, right?

You’ve you’ve communicated that to them from the start. So, really make it I would say make it about you and and what you what you need. Yeah, Joe, that’s a really good point.

Just chime in here from the recruiter perspective. I’m having a phone screen with you from the start, right? And I think this negotiation process can start from then before I’m even telling you.

I’m saying to candidates, what is the number you are looking for? So if you if the range is 100 to 120 and you tell me you’re looking for 80, I will tell you we’re starting at 100. But then when you if you come back when you get the offer and tell me you’re looking for 140, to me that’s that’s not as that’s not a complete picture because we had this conversation and you had the opportunity to tell me 140 then, right?

Then we could level set expectations too. So, I think it’s all about like again, I know you all obviously we want to make $200,000, but I think as Joe said, you know, understanding that that’s not going to happen right away and understanding what is the market, you know, what is the market telling you for this role and being realistic about your goals, but I think you should always be transparent. So, like as Joe mentioned, if 115 is your like the number you want, you could even say 120 in the call.

But I wouldn’t say like, oh, I don’t care like maybe 80 and then when we give you an offer for 100, you’re selling me 140, right? I think there needs to be consistency throughout the conversation as well. So, I think that’s something you all can make sure you go into phone screens or you go into conversations maybe doing research and having some idea of what you would be looking for.

So, I think that’s something like the recruiter will try to do because, you know, we want we want this process to be easy. We don’t want to get to the offer stage and then have to, you know, have a huge hurdle. We want the whole process to kind of be a negotiation and then by the end we’re coming to our agreement when the final offer is getting put together.

Very true. Thank you. And help us help you, right?

Yes. Exactly. I love that.

For sure. Thank you. Thank you.

Team, I see a question here from April which is really interesting. It says, "Is there any common negotiation advice that is now out ofd in this job market that you all feel?" Interesting. That that’s that is a great question.

I being put on the spot, what I would say is, you know, the we’re in a time where one of the competitive advantages that companies offer could be any number of different benefits, right, that that organization provides. And so, it’s not just salary or and 401k and vacation, right? It’s a number of different of different things whether that’s again we we spoke a little bit about child care or elder care or you know reproductive services.

I mean there’s really there’s an endless number of of benefits that companies provide today to try to attract top talent to their organizations. And so what I would my response to this would be every benefit that that company puts you know offers you is negotiable right and and it’s they’re open to a discussion. So instead, like I said, like we said earlier, instead of focusing on just kind of the salary and vacation time and and and some of the the benefits that have been around for for a long time and some of the more prominent benefits, think about the entire package and think about what makes sense to you and what you value and they’re not off the table to be discussed with with your potential employer.

I think speaking to that too since you know Joe and I worked before COVID where we had to go into the office five days a week. So I think for you all that’s kind of common that you’re used to that whereas we have a flex Joe me and Joe are in the Princon office and he is in the office right now and I’m home but we are both in the office Tuesday and Wednesday so we have flexibility. I go to the gym every morning at 7:15 and I start my work at 9:30.

CS allows me to do that because I have a flexible connected model. And that is incredibly important to me. And I would choose a lower salary to have that flexibility than have to go to an office 5 days a week or have to be logged on from like 8 to 5:30, whatever it is.

You know what I mean? I think those are things that really mean a lot to me. I like a flexible connected model.

Whereas I think for me that that’s more important than maybe some other things, right? I think growth th those other things to think about are growth and salary raises because typically where you start out in your job is not where you’re going to be in five years. So thinking about the long term is something to think about where I think in the past maybe the the mindset has been higher salary let me start out right away and I think a lot of startups give you a really high salary which is great but I think at ZS or more of a corporate environment where we have standards every six months at ZS you are getting a salary increase and you are getting a yearly bonus based on your performance.

I love that. I did not have that in my last job and I didn’t realize I would like that so much until I had it. So ask those questions too in the phone screen.

Do your research like what benefits do you have. Because I think again like some of the unknown benefits that might not seem so important at the top of the list are actually really important. For me specifically and I’m sure some of you feel that way as well.

Wow. You all you all are dropping gold nuggets right now. Everyone you heard that every benefit is negotiable.

Think about the whole package. Think outside the box. What we’re all living right now is very different from what generations before us lived as far as benefits and flexibility.

And Valerie, I’m at the gym at 7:15 every day. True. Every morning.

Yeah. This morning I went in the sauna. Yeah.

I went in the sauna because I knew I was working from home today for 15 minutes. So like, you know, it’s like and obviously if I had a meeting or something deliverable, I wouldn’t do that at that time. But I’m home at 9:00 ready to work.

So again, it’s all about I think we have a lot of autonomy in the workplace, maybe more than I I mean at CS for sure, we have a lot of autonomy over when we’re doing things and getting things done. So it’s also really important that you as a person like know how to manage your schedule and manage your expectations and if you have three hours to get something done, can you do it in three hours or do you need more time? Right?

So understanding how you work too is something you’ll learn as you get more invested in your career. Great, great advice. Thank you so much.

Really interesting question coming through from Ivan. And it says, "From a recruiter perspective, what guides negotiation? Is it up to the recruiter, the hiring manager, business needs, etc. Who makes the final decision?" That is that’s a great question, Ivan.

And the the short answer is it’s going to be organization by organization, right? Is every organization’s different. And you know, I’ve I’ve been part of organizations where, you know, the hiring manager has a big plays a big role in compensation and and and offer negotiation, offer structure.

And now I’ve been at ZS where they play pay play they have no role, right? And so it really is up to the recruiter, the salary range for the position, kind of where where you fall in the range in terms of even experience, right? And your ability to grow in like you having the ability to grow in the role, right?

Like like Valerie mentioned earlier, we are lucky to be in a position where we receive increases year-over-year and it’s important u as a firm to give all of our employees that and so you don’t want to bring somebody in super high on the range because that may limit their ability to receive a substantial salary increase year-over-year. So it’s a it’s a great question. It’s one of those questions that it really will be up to every particular organization.

And it could be one person that has the fi that final decision, could be a combination of all three. But it it is very case by case, organization by organization basis. Yeah, that’s exactly right.

I think at my last company, I had to go in when someone was getting an offer with a number and it would be approved and I had the ability to change that more. So I think at DS it is a little bit more structured in that sense where hiring managers have no idea what the salary even is which I do think is fair since they’re interviewing candidates and then those people join their team so they’re not really knowing what exactly everyone is making. That’s more of like an HR type decision.

So again like we Joe and I work with senior leaders in HR. We put in a a suggestion based on salary and years of experience, but ultimately it’s getting approved or declined or whatever from someone who’s more of a senior leader. And I think the salary bands is is very interesting because again, if you if we’re hiring for a role for one to three years of experience and you have one year of experience and you’re asking for the top of the salary range, you’re what are you going to do for those other two years you’re in the role?

Just be at the same pay. You know, it’s not reflective of the skills you’re doing at year one as year three. So, year one, you’re coming in with, you know, minimal experience, but you are going to get there by year two or three, especially if you’re a strong performer.

So, I think those are things to think about, too. You’re never going to come in at the top of the range if you’re starting a new role necessarily or you’re entry level. And I think because that gives you the opportunity to build build on your your skills and things like that.

Very interesting. And that is a great reminder on the piece of like doing your research, knowing where you fall inside of the reality of that range but also moving forward with confidence. I think we have time for one more question and this one’s really interesting from Venica.

If you have a competing offer, how would you politely use that as a bargaining chip instead of coming off as braggy? So I’ll start Joe if you want. As a recruiter, I’ve never felt that someone was bragging about that.

You should be proud that you have these two offers and you have these two companies who are interested in your skills. And I, as a recruiter, appreciate the transparency. So I think it’s okay to say, listen, I’m really interested in ZS.

I really want to work here. However, I do have a competing offer. You know, and kind of say like the competing offer is a higher salary.

However, I like your benefits better or so, you know, like whatever the the twofold is. I think you can be transparent about what they are. However, if you have an offer that is like $60,000 more than the offer you have, that’s probably a little, you know, iffy.

But I think, you know, realistically, I think you can share it with the recruiter if you’re comfortable. Because I think it is okay to have those transparent conversations. For sure.

Yeah, I would I would say the it’s important to be as transparent as pos as as as you can from the very start, right? So if it’s more than likely once you start or start conversations with an organization if you end up with another offer by the time you end up with an offer with that organization you were already in process or about to be in process with that you know another company that you had the that you have this competing offer with right so if you share that upfront that I’m also speaking to you don’t have to say the company you don’t have to share any of those details right but I but I am in process with a few other organizations. Just wanted to let you know as we continue you know as we continue things along, right, or move things along and you can you can really just say, "Hey, I I’m really excited about joining your company.

I do have another offer that provides me, you know, X, Y, and Z." Again, we go back to think about what you value, think about what you want, right? Is okay, if you have this other offer that’s for $100,000 and the offer from the company you’re negotiating with is 95, right? But the other company’s asking you to be in the office five days a week or the again the 95,000, you know, the company that’s offering you 95,000 is offering you one day in the office, right?

You really value your time at home. It’s it’s always going to be that that given give and take. So I would just think about those things before let’s say using it as a bargaining chip, right?

Just really think about what you value and then come to a conclusion at that point. Thank you so much Joe and Valerie. This information is so crucial to our students.

So we really appreciate you all taking the time. Hey community, why don’t you drop some love for our fantastic speakers Joe and Valerie in the chat. Drop your appreciation.

Love to see the hearts and we’re really really excited. And before we wrap in this last two minutes, final pieces or top piece of advice you would share with our emerging engineers. Val, you got you this is this may be your your space.

Maybe I’ll kick it over to you first. Yeah, I would say I this might sound repetitive, but like know what you want, right? I think it’s okay I think it’s okay to not know, but I think it’s okay to to do your research.

I think do your research. I think there’s so many jobs and so many candidates that I think sometimes candidates will just apply to jobs because they’re not sure. But like you should value your time, too.

Like know really what you want and go after it. So don’t apply to like 400 jobs if there’s only really 20 that you really want because it will make the most of you spending your time connecting with those individuals or doing the application or making your resume stand out. I would say just really just really, you know, advocate for what you really want.

And I think that kind of goes back into this whole discussion, but that’s what I would say. And network. I think like networking and meeting folks, even if you don’t end up working at their company, it’s great to just get those connections in because you never know where you’ll be in five years or a connection that you can you know, you can find.

And so Victoria just confirming the these are students or or new gra like new graduates right in this they’re students and new grads recent recent grads. Yes sir. Perfect.

Perfect. So I I would say you are just beginning your career. Be patient.

Try everything. Network with as you know many people as you can. Learn about what you like what you don’t like what you value.

And then you’ll feel really confident and comfortable when you end up in a situation where you have the need to advocate for yourself, right? So it’s that’s my number one piece of advice is at this stage of your career, try so many so many things, you know, fail, right? Just have fun.

And I think everything will work out. So yeah, that’s that’s my my last piece of advice there. Yeah, I love that, Joe.

Like finding things you don’t like. It’s okay to have a job to be like, I don’t like this and I don’t want this in my next job. Like not you don’t have to love every job you’ve ever had, but you can learn something from all those jobs and whether it’s just about not what you like or you might have managers that you’re like, "Wow, this manager thought they were good, then I had a great manager and that’s the kind of person I want to work for." So, I think you know, learning from all of your experiences for sure.

Just echoing what Joe said, it was absolutely agree. Incredible. Thank you so much, Valerie and Joe.

Appreciate your time and your insights. And to close us out, we’ll now go to a brief video from our host, Bobby. Now, wasn’t that a great session?

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